[License-discuss] Curious about derived works and AI...

[Bruce Perens]

On Fri, May 31, 2024 at 5:08 AM Stefano Maffulli <stefano at maffulli.net>
wrote:

> You should realize that you're implicitly arguing for an extension of
> copyright at the expense of freedom of research, open knowledge and open
> science, before Open Source.
>

I'm not convinced. I think we are talking about existing implications of
copyright that should be resolved through case law in the United States.
Obviously the cases are in progress, so that's not an entirely satisfying
answer today. I also think it's inevitable that WIPO will get involved and
that sometime in the future Japan may have to make a decision based on
their remaining within treaties and retaining the trade options that come
with that - which are a pretty big incentive. I'm not saying I approve of
the WIPO regime, I just think that's how things will work out.

But you need to realize that  the mega corps already have
> swallowed your code and writings and pictures and use patters, graph of
> friends, etc, through perfectly legal means, like the GitHub terms of
> service. And they'll continue to do so with bilateral deals (Reddit,
> Stackoverflow, etc.)
>

This is a *really* good point and one that we have the *full power to
address,* and to promote the solution rather than just complain: we should
not *heedlessly* enter into corporate terms of service just to do our
operations. And that's what we're doing now, it's heedless, most of us have
never even read those terms. What alternative site do readers recommend? I
also need an online discussion / mailing list forum without such terms.

So, why can't you do that, Stef? I think one of your "mega corp" sponsors
might be offended if you did. I did run into such a constraint while
working on the ETSI issue for OSI. People need to be aware that there are
places that corporate-sponsored Open Source non-profits can't tread, and
leadership on those issues must come from elsewhere.


> Your argument is going to deprive open research groups like Eleuther AI,
> LLM360, LAION and future ones of an opportunity to compete with the mega
> corps, imposing restrictions to text and data mining that will limit
> only the **real** Open Source AI.
>

In the draft Post-Open Zero Cost License  (
https://perens.com/static/DEVELOPMENT_LICENSE.txt?v=2024_05_24.1 ) I made
it so that a machine learning model could be trained if the model was
itself under the same license. See 2.6, 2.7, 2.9, 2.12(c), 2.13, 2.14,
3.3(f), 4.8, 4.14. That license, of course, is a response to the corporate
abuses you are complaining about.

I will pursue the documents you recommended.

    Thanks

    Bruce
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license-discuss_lists.opensource.org/attachments/20240531/3a9952fa/attachment.html>