[License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) 0.4.0
Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil
Wed Aug 24 13:05:25 UTC 2016
OK, so it's the way I thought. First, propose a license on this list for discussion, but the actual review takes place on the license-review mailing list.
Thanks,
Cem Karan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-bounces at opensource.org] On Behalf Of Richard Fontana
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 5:04 PM
> To: license-discuss at opensource.org
> Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL)
> 0.4.0
>
> Yes, that is mistaken. This list plays no role in the OSI license approval process, though it can be an appropriate place to discuss a license
> that has not been submitted for OSI approval.
>
> Richard
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 08:45:41PM +0000, Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US) wrote:
> > I'm aware of the other list, but my understanding was that it had to be submitted to this list for discussion first, and then submitted to
> license-review once there was some consensus; am I wrong about this?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Cem Karan
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: License-discuss
> > > [Caution-mailto:license-discuss-bounces at opensource.org] On Behalf Of
> > > Richard Fontana
> > > Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 2:53 PM
> > > To: license-discuss at opensource.org
> > > Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: [Non-DoD Source]
> > > Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL)
> > > 0.4.0
> > >
> > > All active links contained in this email were disabled. Please
> > > verify the identity of the sender, and confirm the authenticity of all links contained within the message prior to copying and pasting
> the address to a Web browser.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----
> > >
> > > I'm not sure if you're already aware but for several years this
> > > mailing list has not been used for discussing licenses submitted for
> > > OSI approval -- that is done on the license-review mailing list. The license review process is described at Caution- Caution-
> https://opensource.org/approval.
> > >
> > > I haven't followed this thread too closely but it is clear that the
> > > ARL OSL is very different from NOSA 2.0. The only way to see whether it would merit OSI approval (if that's what you are seeking)
> would be to submit it for review.
> > >
> > > Richard
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 05:14:59PM +0000, Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US) wrote:
> > > > OK, so assuming that the NOSA 2.0 license is dead in the water,
> > > > what about the ARL OSL? Is it also, dead, and if so, why? Leave
> > > > aside
> > > the license proliferation aspect, and focus on what needs to be changed with the ARL OSL to make it acceptable.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Cem Karan
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: License-discuss
> > > > > [Caution-Caution-mailto:license-discuss-bounces at opensource.org]
> > > > > On Behalf Of Richard Fontana
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2016 10:21 AM
> > > > > To: license-discuss at opensource.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: [Non-DoD
> > > > > Source]
> > > > > Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL)
> > > > > 0.4.0
> > > > >
> > > > > All active links contained in this email were disabled. Please
> > > > > verify the identity of the sender, and confirm the authenticity
> > > > > of all links contained within the message prior to copying and
> > > > > pasting
> > > the address to a Web browser.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 02:24:53AM +0000, Tzeng, Nigel H. wrote:
> > > > > > My understanding then and now was that it had become clear to
> > > > > > them that Richard and Bruce was going to stall approval for a
> > > > > > long time/forever unless they took out the patent clause that
> > > > > > the open data folks wanted. So they withdrew because they were
> > > > > > never going to do that and the discussions were getting more and more heated.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm assuming 'Richard' is me and 'Bruce' is Bruce Perens.
> > > > > Neither of us were on the OSI board at that time; we were just
> > > > > participants on a mailing list. Also, I don't recall Bruce
> > > > > Perens' involvement in the
> > > > > CC0 discussion at all, but my objective was to encourage the OSI
> > > > > take a consistent approach to the problem of nonstandard
> > > > > provisions dealing with patents, having remembered the
> > > > > discussion of the MXM license in ~2009, rather than an approach
> > > > > that would be
> > > explainable solely by attitudes towards the license steward.
> > > > >
> > > > > > If you don¹t believe that was a correct assessment on their
> > > > > > part then pray tell the status of NOSA v2 that was originally
> > > > > > submitted for approval in 2013.
> > > > >
> > > > > That's a special, unfortunate case. With NOSA 2.0 I continued
> > > > > (and sort of continue) to feel that the license was salvageable
> > > > > with a lot of work, which no one (including me and I think
> > > > > including NASA)
> > > seems to have the time or inclination to take on individually or collectively.
> > > > > Possibly, in retrospect, the better approach with NOSA
> > > > > 2.0 would have been to outright reject it as being way too
> > > > > complex with a number of likely or actual fatal problems. An
> > > > > issue there was that, until recently, I assumed that the OSI
> > > > > customarily does not formally reject licenses, as opposed to
> > > > > just not approving those that are problematic (holding out the
> > > > > possibility of the license steward submitting revisions or
> > > > > improvements). I think that is actually
> > > true of licenses submitted in the past several years, but I recently
> > > learned that in the distant past there were licenses the OSI actually formally rejected.
> > > > >
> > > > > Even now, I still think NOSA 2.0 can be fixed without revising
> > > > > it beyond all recognition. However, I pointed out at least one
> > > > > significant problem (related, in fact, to the MXM/CC0 patent
> > > > > provisions issue) and it did not seem that Bryan was receptive
> > > > > to discussing it. Even if the OSI did have at least an earlier
> > > > > history of rejecting licenses, I believe it's true that revised
> > > > > versions of
> > > problematic submitted licenses have generally been prepared by the license steward rather than that task being taken on by the OSI
> itself.
> > > That is, it would be strange if the only way to get an acceptable
> > > version of NOSA 2.0 would be for the OSI to take on primary responsibility for drafting it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > License-discuss mailing list
> > > > > License-discuss at opensource.org
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> > > > > lman/listinf
> > > > > o/license-discuss
> > >
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