[License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US) cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil
Fri Mar 17 20:48:29 UTC 2017


You're probably right.  I don't **think** that there are any other journals that will turn down code if it doesn't come with an OSI-approved license; can anyone think of one?

Thanks,
Cem Karan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-bounces at opensource.org] On Behalf Of Tzeng, Nigel H.
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 1:16 PM
> To: license-discuss at opensource.org
> Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL
> OSL) Version 0.4.1
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> ----
> 
> Other than JOSS I still don’t see how it makes a big difference for the Government.  And the ability to publish in JOSS seems like a rather
> secondary consideration…and I say that as a software developer in an academic environment…
> 
> On 3/17/17, 8:32 AM, "License-discuss on behalf of Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)" <license-discuss-
> bounces at opensource.org on behalf of cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
> 
>     OK, so different groups have different opinions.  I'm glad Fedora views CC0 as meeting the OSD definitions though.  I'd still like to
> convince OSI that the route I outlined earlier should be considered to be Open Source; I think it'll make things easier for a lot of the
> Government.
> 
>     Thanks,
>     Cem Karan
> 
>     > -----Original Message-----
>     > From: License-discuss [Caution-mailto:license-discuss-bounces at opensource.org] On Behalf Of Tom Callaway
>     > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:46 PM
>     > To: license-discuss at opensource.org
>     > Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License
> (ARL
>     > OSL) Version 0.4.1
>     >
>     > All active links contained in this email were disabled. Please verify the identity of the sender, and confirm the authenticity of all links
>     > contained within the message prior to copying and pasting the address to a Web browser.
>     >
>     >
>     > ________________________________
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > I'd think the only ones who get to apply the "Open Source" label to licenses would be the OSI. Fedora's opinion is that CC-0 meets the
>     > OSD.
>     >
>     > On Mar 16, 2017 4:31 PM, "Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)" <cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil < Caution-
>     > Caution-mailto:cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil > > wrote:
>     >
>     >
>     > 	Cool!  Would Fedora/Red Hat consider it to be Open Source?
>     >
>     > 	Thanks,
>     > 	Cem Karan
>     >
>     > 	> -----Original Message-----
>     > 	> From: License-discuss [Caution-Caution-mailto:license-discuss-bounces at opensource.org < Caution-Caution-mailto:license-
> discuss-
>     > bounces at opensource.org > ] On Behalf Of Tom Callaway
>     > 	> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 3:31 PM
>     > 	> To: license-discuss at opensource.org < Caution-Caution-mailto:license-discuss at opensource.org >
>     > 	> Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source
>     > License (ARL
>     > 	> OSL) Version 0.4.1
>     > 	>
>     > 	> All active links contained in this email were disabled. Please verify the identity of the sender, and confirm the authenticity of all
>     > links
>     > 	> contained within the message prior to copying and pasting the address to a Web browser.
>     > 	>
>     > 	>
>     > 	> ________________________________
>     > 	>
>     > 	>
>     > 	>
>     > 	> Can't speak for Debian, but Fedora will happily take software licensed as you describe.
>     > 	>
>     > 	> On Mar 16, 2017 3:09 PM, "Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)" <cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil < Caution-
>     > Caution-mailto:cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil >  < Caution-
>     > 	> Caution-Caution-mailto:cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil < Caution-Caution-mailto:cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil >  > > wrote:
>     > 	>
>     > 	>
>     > 	>       I agree that the Government can release it as open source, but as I understand it, not as Open Source.  The difference is
>     > whether
>     > 	> or not the code will be accepted into various journals (Journal of Open Source Software is one).  It also affects whether or not
>     > various
>     > 	> distributions will accept the work (would Debian?  I honestly don't know).
>     > 	>
>     > 	>       And I'm not after plain vanilla CC0 code to be called Open Source, I'm after the method I outlined earlier.  This side-steps the
>     > need
>     > 	> to have CC0 put forth by the license steward (I hope!).  I know that is splitting hairs, but at this point I'm tearing my hair out
>     > over this, and
>     > 	> would like to put it to rest before I have to buy a wig.
>     > 	>
>     > 	>       Thanks,
>     > 	>       Cem Karan
>     > 	>
>     > 	>       > -----Original Message-----
>     > 	>       > From: License-discuss [Caution-Caution-Caution-mailto:license-discuss-bounces at opensource.org < Caution-Caution-
> mailto:license-discuss-
>     > bounces at opensource.org >  < Caution-Caution-Caution-mailto:license-discuss- < Caution-Caution-mailto:license-discuss- >
>     > 	> bounces at opensource.org < Caution-Caution-mailto:bounces at opensource.org >  > ] On Behalf Of Tzeng, Nigel H.
>     > 	>       > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 2:48 PM
>     > 	>       > To: license-discuss at opensource.org < Caution-Caution-mailto:license-discuss at opensource.org >  < Caution-Caution-
> Caution-mailto:license-
>     > discuss at opensource.org < Caution-Caution-mailto:license-discuss at opensource.org >  >
>     > 	>       > Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open
>     > Source
>     > 	> License (ARL
>     > 	>       > OSL) Version 0.4.1
>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       > All active links contained in this email were disabled.  Please verify the identity of the sender, and confirm the authenticity
>     > of all
>     > 	> links
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>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       > ----
>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       > Cem,
>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       > The USG does not need OSI’s approval to release code as open source under CC0.  It has done so already on code.gov <
>     > Caution-Caution-http://code.gov >  < Caution-
>     > 	> Caution-Caution-http://code.gov < Caution-Caution-http://code.gov >  > .  This includes the
>     > 	>       > OPM, NASA, GSA, DOT, DOL, DOC and others. CC0 is compliant with the Federal Source Code Policy for open source
>     > release.
>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       > It is unlikely that you can push CC0 through license review as you aren’t the license steward.  It is up to CC to resubmit CC0
>     > for
>     > 	> approval.
>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       > Regards,
>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       > Nigel
>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       > On 3/16/17, 8:56 AM, "License-discuss on behalf of Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)" <license-discuss-
>     > 	>       > bounces at opensource.org < Caution-Caution-mailto:bounces at opensource.org >  < Caution-Caution-
>     > Caution-mailto:bounces at opensource.org < Caution-Caution-mailto:bounces at opensource.org >  >  on behalf of
> cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil < Caution-
>     > Caution-mailto:cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil >  < Caution-
>     > 	> Caution-Caution-mailto:cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil < Caution-Caution-mailto:cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil >  > > wrote:
>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       >     All, I want to keep this alive as I haven't seen a conclusion yet.  Earlier I
>     > 	>       >     asked if OSI would accept the US Government (USG) putting its non-copyrighted
>     > 	>       >     works out under CC0 as Open Source **provided** that the USG accepts and
>     > 	>       >     redistributes copyrighted contributions under an OSI-approved license.  Is
>     > 	>       >     this acceptable to OSI?  Should I move this discussion to the license-review
>     > 	>       >     list?
>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       >     To recap:
>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       >     1) This would only cover USG works that do not have copyright.  Works that
>     > 	>       >     have copyright would be eligible to use copyright-based licenses, and to be
>     > 	>       >     OSI-approved as Open Source would need to use an OSI-approved license.
>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       >     2) The USG work/project would select an OSI-approved license that it accepted
>     > 	>       >     contributions under.  The USG would redistribute the contributions under that
>     > 	>       >     license, but the portions of the work that are not under copyright would be
>     > 	>       >     redistributed under CC0.  That means that for some projects (ones that have no
>     > 	>       >     copyrighted material at all initially), the only license that the works would
>     > 	>       >     have would be CC0.
>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       >     I can't speak to patents or other IP rights that the USG has, I can only
>     > 	>       >     comment on what the Army Research Laboratory (ARL) has done
>     > 	>       >     (Caution-Caution-Caution-Caution-https://github.com/USArmyResearchLab/ARL-Open-Source-Guidance-and-
> Instructions <
>     > Caution-Caution-https://github.com/USArmyResearchLab/ARL-Open-Source-Guidance-and-Instructions >  < Caution-
>     > 	> Caution-Caution-https://github.com/USArmyResearchLab/ARL-Open-Source-Guidance-and-Instructions < Caution-
>     > Caution-https://github.com/USArmyResearchLab/ARL-Open-Source-Guidance-and-Instructions >  > ),
>     > 	>       >     which includes a step to affirmatively waive any patent rights that ARL might
>     > 	>       >     have in the project before distributing it.  I am hoping that other agencies
>     > 	>       >     will do something similar, but have no power or authority to say that they
>     > 	>       >     will.
>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       >     Given all this, is it time to move this to license-review, or otherwise get a
>     > 	>       >     vote?  I'd like this solved ASAP.
>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       >     Thanks,
>     > 	>       >     Cem Karan
>     > 	>       >
>     > 	>       >
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