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<p>As I understand it, there wouldn't be any license needed for use
in the United States since the software is in the public domain in
the US, so the license applies (1) outside of the US and (2) in
the US where NIST could claim that the user contractually accepted
the limitations on use (the obligation to keep the notice and the
waiver of warranty) - but just using the software won't be enough
to prove contract, as it does when the agreement is a true
copyright license. But I'm generally not concerned with whether a
license can be enforced, just that, if it can be enforced, it
doesn't have any impermissible restrictions.</p>
<p>I'm a little confused by this statement: "Cases where the work is
copyright-protected would fall under other licenses." Are you
saying that, if there is 3rd party-created software, this license
won't be used for it? The document says "NIST-developed software
is provided by NIST as a public service." This seems like a
possible trap, that is, is it an advisory that there could be
software in the bundle that was created by a contractor that isn't
included under this license because it isn't "NIST-developed," so
it's up to the user to somehow figure that out? It's not great to
have it in the license, for that reason. However, it also could be
construed as non-operative language, with the next sentences
giving clear grants, even if some of the software was created by
contractors who have copyright. </p>
<p>In light of the fact that this is a legacy government license I'm
inclined to overlook its flaws, since it's not trying to impose
any unacceptable restrictions. I don't see any reason not to
approve it.</p>
<p>Pam</p>
<div class="moz-signature">Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
4641 Post St.<br>
Unit 4316<br>
El Dorado Hills, CA 95762<br>
+1 919-800-8033<br>
pamela@chesteklegal<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.chesteklegal.com">www.chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/7/2026 1:35 PM, Hale, Lucas M.
(Fed) via License-review wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hi All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I finally
managed to get meetings rescheduled after the shutdown and
holidays to get answers to your questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">First, the
primary questions for submission.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">1.
Describe what gap not filled by currently existing licenses
that the new license will fill.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Any open
source software created at NIST using federal funding is
required to use the NIST software license. Software that
originates primarily from NIST-funded work must operate
under US government public access policies, which the NIST
software license is compliant with.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">2.
Compare it to and contrast it with the most similar
OSI-approved license(s).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The NIST
license is close to the MIT license in that it defines the
copyright scope, usage rights, citation guidelines, and
liability disclaimers. It differs in that because it is the
result of federally funded work it is not subject to
copyright protection in the US to begin with rather than
giving the copyright away.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">3.
Describe any legal review the license has been through,
including whether it was drafted by a lawyer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The license
was drafted by the NIST Office of Chief Council and has
undergone internal review and revisions over the years.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">As for other
discussion and questions from the thread:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">This license
is associated with US government-sponsored work that is
performed by government employees or others working at NIST.
As stated above and in the license, there is inherently no
copyright in the US with the associated work due to the US
government public access policies. However, it does specify
usage permissions, terms and conditions, and disclaimers to
protect against legal liability.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">As for
outside the US, the <a
href="https://www.usa.gov/government-copyright"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://www.usa.gov/government-copyright</a> page has this
line: \u201cThe U.S. government may assert copyright outside of
the United States for U.S. government works.\u201d My guess is
that this allows for export-control over works to target
countries, but I\u2019m not sure if this is currently being done
on public access works.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Cases where
the work is copyright-protected would fall under other
licenses. For the \u201ccontractors\u201d exceptions, from what I
heard it is less of a loophole and more the result of
contract negotiations between government organizations and
external contractors/subcontractors. The idea is that the
external party has or is developing proprietary tools and
data that the government wants to use, so complex contracts
with special provisions and clauses let the external party
retain copyright control while the government has usage
rights. But, as stated, that is outside the scope of the
license under review.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Lucas<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:none">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:none">
License-review
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org"><license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Hale, Lucas M. (Fed) via
License-review<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 30, 2025 11:22 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> License submissions for OSI review
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"><license-review@lists.opensource.org></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Hale, Lucas M. (Fed)
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lucas.hale@nist.gov"><lucas.hale@nist.gov></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [License-review] Review
for the NIST Software License<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hi
reviewers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I reached
out to those in charge of the NIST software policy and will
meet with them and our Office of Chief Council to discuss
and bring your questions to them. We\u2019ll hopefully get
answers for moving forward in regards to both sides.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Note that
since a US Government shutdown is imminent and at this
moment likely, progress on the NIST side may take some time
and I won\u2019t have email access during the down time.
Hopefully it won\u2019t happen or be too long, but if you need to
table/withdraw the review after a time period feel free to
do so and we can try again when possible.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Lucas<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:none">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:none">
Carlo Piana <<a href="mailto:carlo@piana.eu"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">carlo@piana.eu</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 30, 2025 4:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> License submissions for OSI review <<a
href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">license-review@lists.opensource.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Hale, Lucas M. (Fed) <<a
href="mailto:lucas.hale@nist.gov"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">lucas.hale@nist.gov</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [License-review] Review
for the NIST Software License<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="0" align="left" width="100%" style="width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="0"
style="width:.3pt;background:#A6A6A6;padding:5.25pt 1.5pt 5.25pt 1.5pt"><br>
</td>
<td width="100%"
style="width:100.0%;background:#EAEAEA;padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 5.25pt 11.25pt;aspect-ratio: revert !important;background:revert !important;block-size: revert !important;border:revert !important;bottom: revert !important;color:revert !important;color-scheme: revert !important;content-visibility: revert !important;cursor:revert !important;direction:revert !important;display:revert !important;font-size:revert !important;height:revert !important;hyphens: revert !important;letter-spacing:revert !important;line-height:revert !important;margin:revert !important;opacity: revert !important;order: revert !important;outline: revert !important;overflow:revert !important;padding:revert !important;position:revert !important;resize: revert !important;rotate: revert !important;scale: revert !important;tab-size: revert !important;table-layout:revert !important;text-align:revert !important;text-indent:revert !important;text-orientation: revert !important;text-overflow: revert !important;text-shadow:revert !important;text-transform:revert !important;text-wrap: revert !important;top:revert !important;transition: revert !important;user-select: revert !important;vertical-align:revert !important;visibility:revert !important;white-space:revert !important;width:revert !important;word-break:revert !important;word-spacing:revert !important;writing-mode:revert !important;zoom: revert !important">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly">
<span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#212121">You
don't often get email from
</span><span style="color:black"><a
href="mailto:carlo@piana.eu"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">carlo@piana.eu</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#212121">.
</span><span style="color:black"><a
href="https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Learn
why this is important</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#212121">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</td>
<td width="75"
style="width:56.25pt;background:#EAEAEA;padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 5.25pt 3.75pt;aspect-ratio: revert !important;background:revert !important;block-size: revert !important;border:revert !important;bottom: revert !important;color:revert !important;color-scheme: revert !important;content-visibility: revert !important;cursor:revert !important;direction:revert !important;display:revert !important;font-size:revert !important;height:revert !important;hyphens: revert !important;letter-spacing:revert !important;line-height:revert !important;margin:revert !important;opacity: revert !important;order: revert !important;outline: revert !important;overflow:revert !important;padding:revert !important;position:revert !important;resize: revert !important;rotate: revert !important;scale: revert !important;tab-size: revert !important;table-layout:revert !important;text-align:revert !important;text-indent:revert !important;text-orientation: revert !important;text-overflow: revert !important;text-shadow:revert !important;text-transform:revert !important;text-wrap: revert !important;top:revert !important;transition: revert !important;user-select: revert !important;vertical-align:revert !important;visibility:revert !important;white-space:revert !important;width:revert !important;word-break:revert !important;word-spacing:revert !important;writing-mode:revert !important;zoom: revert !important;align: left !important"><br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none">Lucas,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none">if
I understand correctly, this should not technically be
a license, since the software is not subject to
copyright in the USA as far as it has been created by
NIST employees. I think that if software is not given
protection in the state of first publication is not
protected even elsewhere, under the Berne Convention,
therefore this is basically a dedication to public
domain, whose primary scope is the liability
disclaimer(s). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none">However,
the "provided that you keep intact this entire notice"
is technically (US lawyers please help) a condition,
that means this is a license with conditional grant,
after all. The other condition-like provision uses the
verb "should", which is more of an invite, at face
value. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none">I
do not see anything that would prevent this text to be
approved, maybe in the "non reusable" category. But
could NIST give us their position on the above
discussion, for the sake of clarity, please?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none">Carlo
(in his personal provisional view and capacity)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center"
style="text-align:center"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none">Da:
</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none">"Hale,
Lucas M. (Fed) via License-review" <</span><a
href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:none">license-review@lists.opensource.org</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none">><br>
<b>A: </b>"</span><a
href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:none">license-review@lists.opensource.org</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none">"
<</span><a
href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:none">license-review@lists.opensource.org</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none">><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"Hale, Lucas M. (Fed)" <</span><a
href="mailto:lucas.hale@nist.gov"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:none">lucas.hale@nist.gov</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none">><br>
<b>Inviato: </b>Lunedė, 29 settembre 2025 22:13:02<br>
<b>Oggetto: </b>[License-review] Review for the
NIST Software License<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Hi OSI
reviewers!</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">I would like to
submit the National Institute of Standards and
Technology (NIST) Software license for review to be
included in your list. This is the primary license
that NIST staff are expected to use when releasing
software.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">The license
complies with the Open Source Definition, including
the OSD 3, 5, 6 and 9 criteria.</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">There are
numerous projects using the NIST software. For
instance, there are 1.3K repositories at
</span><a href="https://github.com/usnistgov"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">https://github.com/usnistgov</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> that should
all be using the license. As such, it falls under
the legacy category.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">The NIST
license is also listed on the main NIST website
</span><a
href="https://www.nist.gov/open/copyright-fair-use-and-licensing-statements-srd-data-software-and-technical-series-publications"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">https://www.nist.gov/open/copyright-fair-use-and-licensing-statements-srd-data-software-and-technical-series-publications</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">, and has an
SPDX listing </span><a
href="https://spdx.org/licenses/NIST-Software.html"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">https://spdx.org/licenses/NIST-Software.html</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">. Under both
sites, it is titled \u201cNIST Software License\u201d</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Thank you for
your time and consideration!</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Sincerely,</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Lucas Hale</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black;mso-ligatures:none"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
The opinions expressed in this email are those of
the sender and not necessarily those of the Open
Source Initiative. Communication from the Open
Source Initiative will be sent from an
opensource.org email address.<br>
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<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
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