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<p>I don't think OSI is proposing to rename this license (the PPPL
one; the LBNL one is already approved under its current and
historical name). I think the idea here is that PPPL doesn't need
a separate approval or entry (by OSI) as it is really just LBNL
with a different author name. And thus would fall within the
existing approval of LBNL if OSI were to adopt the "replaceable
language" schema of SPDX (which I think it should).</p>
<p>GIven that LBNL is already approved under that name (and has an
SPDX identifier under that name) I don't think anyone ought to be
renaming it (even if it is just in metadata).</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/22/2025 6:35 AM, Richard Fontana
via License-review wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:CAC1cPGyk12c9_oiAm0+nqR+TNYNfXhY11wuD22kBe_GN7z0amw@mail.gmail.com">
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<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">If I
understand correctly, the objection is actually to use of an
SPDX identifier that refers to `LBNL`. I would say you
should raise this with the SPDX legal team and that this is
not an OSI issue. (cc'ing Jilayne Lovejoy who's on the SPDX
legal team)</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I suppose OSI
could rename "Lawrence Berkeley National Labs BSD Variant
License" to something more generic but I don't think that
would guarantee that SPDX would follow suit with its
corresponding identifier. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">But it seems
somewhat akin to a project complaining about using
`Apache-2.0` or `GPL-2.0-or-later` because the project is
not affiliated with the Apache Software Foundation or the
GNU project, respectively. It's an arguably charming feature
of open source that licenses often have names with
historical associations that refer to particular licensors
-- indeed this is of course also true of "BSD". Especially
on the SPDX identifier side, or in cases where an SPDX
identifier is assigned before a license gets OSI-approved
(possibly relevant to `BSD-3-Clause-LBNL`?), the problem is
that sometimes the SPDX identifier has what I'd argue is the
"wrong" historical association, in the sense that the
license in question originated with some earlier
licensor/author/copyright holder, though I don't know if
that's relevant in this case.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Richard</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 22, 2025 at
8:14\u202fAM Will Rarich via License-review <<a
href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">license-review@lists.opensource.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I wanted to follow up on this discussion from
earlier this year regarding a genericization of the
BSD-3-LBNL entry on the OSI site into one that can be
adapted to any DOE National Laboratory. We would like
to have an OSI link to refer to this preferred
license, particularly within the metadata of open
source software listed in <a
href="https://www.osti.gov/doecode/biblio/12565"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">DOE CODE</a>.
A "BSD-3-DOE" would be more appropriate than the
version naming LBNL. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please let me know if there's any other information
PPPL can provide to justify this request. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr"><font color="#666666">Will Rarich</font>
<div><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)">Technology
Transfer Specialist</span><br>
</div>
<div><font color="#666666"><a
href="mailto:wrarich@pppl.gov"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">wrarich@pppl.gov</a></font></div>
<div><font color="#666666">Mobile: (908)-285-7143</font></div>
<div><font color="#666666">Visit us at <a
href="https://innovation.pppl.gov/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://innovation.pppl.gov/</a><br>
</font></div>
<div>
<div><font color="#666666"><b>Princeton Plasma
Physics Laboratory</b> is a U.S.
Department of Energy National Laboratory
managed by Princeton University.</font></div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><img
src="https://pppl-intranet.princeton.edu/sites/pppl-intranet/files/pppl_logo.png"
alt="PPPL" width="96" height="53"
moz-do-not-send="true"></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 21, 2025
at 1:00\u202fPM Will Rarich <<a
href="mailto:wrarich@pppl.gov" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">wrarich@pppl.gov</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
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<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Carlo,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you for your comments. Apologies for
any confusion around the "claiming copyright"
concept we mentioned in the request, it is just
required in our government reporting obligations
that we cite a published OSS license. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Josh's suggestion to genericize the language
in the BSD-LBNL on the OSI site is probably the
ideal solution for us and other DOE labs. We
only submitted this request because citing that
version could be confusing, since it contains
the specific name of the Lab.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr"><font color="#666666">Will
Rarich</font>
<div><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)">Technology
Transfer Specialist</span><br>
</div>
<div><font color="#666666"><a
href="mailto:wrarich@pppl.gov"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">wrarich@pppl.gov</a></font></div>
<div><font color="#666666">Mobile:
(908)-285-7143</font></div>
<div><font color="#666666">Visit us at <a
href="https://innovation.pppl.gov/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://innovation.pppl.gov/</a><br>
</font></div>
<div>
<div><font color="#666666"><b>Princeton
Plasma Physics Laboratory</b> is a
U.S. Department of Energy National
Laboratory managed by Princeton
University.</font></div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><img
src="https://pppl-intranet.princeton.edu/sites/pppl-intranet/files/pppl_logo.png"
alt="PPPL" width="96" height="53"
moz-do-not-send="true"></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul 18,
2025 at 9:36\u202fAM Carlo Piana <<a
href="mailto:carlo@piana.eu" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">carlo@piana.eu</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>Will,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>thank you for your submission.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If I understand correctly, the main
reason for creating a new license and
submit it as an approved license is to
permit attribution of copyright? I am
rather opposed to have this kind of
licenses approved, since the BSD license
has a placeholder and any name slotted in
is by definition approved and this one, if
I understand it correctly, does not bring
any difference but the name, so it's the
same license.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Despite it not being necessarily an
issue of proliferation, giving it a
different name when it's actually the same
license, creates unnecessary friction,
clogs the namespace and creates a lot of
issues in automated license compatibility
resolution, especially if it's given a
separate SPDX identifier.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Besides, it is not the license the
right place to claim copyright. In source
code there are standards like SPDX and
REUSE and that one is the (machine
readable) way. In object code there are
numerous ways too.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Have you considered the above?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you very much.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Carlo</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<hr
id="m_-7089212404250230478m_-1709139797641576522m_-8877759047720371122m_7485619166854681098zwchr">
<div>
<blockquote
style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;padding-left:5px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><b>Da:
</b>"Will Rarich via License-review"
<<a
href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">license-review@lists.opensource.org</a>><br>
<b>A: </b>"<a
href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">license-review@lists.opensource.org</a>"
<<a
href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">license-review@lists.opensource.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"Will Rarich" <<a
href="mailto:wrarich@pppl.gov"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">wrarich@pppl.gov</a>><br>
<b>Inviato: </b>Mercoledì, 9 luglio
2025 18:25:54<br>
<b>Oggetto: </b>[License-review] OSI
License Submission - PPPL BSD-3<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;padding-left:5px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Hello,</div>
<br>
<div>I work in the tech transfer
office at the Princeton Plasma
Physics Lab (PPPL), a DOE National
Laboratory, and I have recently
taken up a stewardship role over
the lab's software portfolio. I am
in the process of ensuring we are
compliant with our contractual
obligations to the DOE in how we
obtain permission to
copyright software, so there are a
number of "legacy" codes at the
lab being open sourced in addition
to anything newly authored by our
developers. My colleague Chris
Wright has prepared a preferred
license for this process, a
variant of Lawrence Berkeley
National Lab's BSD-3 license (<a
href="https://opensource.org/license/bsd-3-clause-lbnl" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://opensource.org/license/bsd-3-clause-lbnl</a>)
with PPPL's name substituted. We
would like to have our license
officially approved by OSI to
encourage its use when our
developers decide to open source
through our office. </div>
<br>
<div>As it pertains to this review
process, this license would be
considered "new" as it has been in
use for only a few months. </div>
<br>
<div>The attached PPPL BSD-3 License
complies with the Open Source
Definition, including clauses 3,
5, 6, and 9.</div>
<br>
<div>Anarrima (<a
href="https://github.com/PrincetonUniversity/anarrima" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/PrincetonUniversity/anarrima</a>)
has been made publicly available
with the PPPL BSD-3 License, and
several other PPPL-developed codes
will be imminently open sourced
with it. </div>
<br>
<div>The license steward is
PPPL's Strategic Engagement and
Applications Development office (<a
href="mailto:SEAD@pppl.gov"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">SEAD@pppl.gov</a>). </div>
<br>
<div>The license name is Princeton
Plasma Physics Lab BSD Variant
License with the identifier
BSD-3-Clause-PPPL.</div>
<br>
<div>The gap filled by this
additional license is
PPPL's ability to assert copyright
on software authored by its staff
and affiliates. When DOE-funded
software announcements are made in
accordance with our government
contract at <a
href="https://www.osti.gov/doecode/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.osti.gov/doecode/</a>
the announcement requires the name
and/or link to the OSS License.
Having the PPPL version of the
BSD-3-Clause-PPPL published on <a
href="http://opensource.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">opensource.org</a>
will reduce confusion by enabling
links to the correct document. </div>
<br>
<div>It is most similar to
LBNL's BSD-3 license (<a
href="https://opensource.org/license/bsd-3-clause-lbnl" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://opensource.org/license/bsd-3-clause-lbnl</a>)
with PPPL's name substituted
throughout. </div>
<br>
<div>The license has not been
through legal review. </div>
<br>
<div>I am happy to address any
further questions or comments
regarding this license. </div>
<br>
<div>Best,</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr"><font
color="#666666">Will Rarich</font>
<div><span
style="color:rgb(102,102,102)">Technology Transfer Specialist</span><br>
</div>
<div><font color="#666666"><a
href="mailto:wrarich@pppl.gov" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">wrarich@pppl.gov</a></font><br>
</div>
<div><font color="#666666">Mobile:
(908)-285-7143</font></div>
<div><font color="#666666">Visit
us at <a
href="https://innovation.pppl.gov/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://innovation.pppl.gov/</a><br>
</font></div>
<div>
<div><font color="#666666"><b>Princeton
Plasma Physics
Laboratory</b> is a U.S.
Department of Energy
National Laboratory
managed by Princeton
University.</font></div>
<div
style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><img
alt="PPPL" width="96"
height="53"
src="https://pppl-intranet.princeton.edu/sites/pppl-intranet/files/pppl_logo.png"
moz-do-not-send="true"></div>
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