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Thanks Andreas, it was a pleasure.<br>
<br>
Pam<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/20/2023 3:58 AM, Andreas
Nettsträter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:FR3P281MB2249366A74F69F2E6E23616A9B809@FR3P281MB2249.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">Dear Pam,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">Thank you for the good news.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">We are very grateful for the constructive
discussion on the list and the resulting significant
improvement of the license.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">Best regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">Andreas<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Von:</b> License-review
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org"><license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org></a>
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Pamela Chestek<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 18. März 2023 15:04<br>
<b>An:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org">license-review@lists.opensource.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [License-review] For Approval: Open
Logistics License v1.3 (was v1.2)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">The Board of
the Open Source Initiative approved the Open Logistics License
version 1.3 as an Open Source Initiative Certified license in
the special purpose category of licenses at its March 19, 2023
meeting.<br>
<br>
The Board did so with the comment that it does not believe
that choice of law provisions are necessary or advisable in
open source licenses.<br>
<br>
Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chair, License Committee<br>
Open Source Initiative<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 3/12/2023 8:31 PM, Pamela Chestek
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Attached is
the recommendation of the License Committee to the Board of
Directors of the OSI recommending approval of the Open
Logistics License version 1.3<br>
<br>
This is only a recommendation; the next step is that the
Board will vote on whether or not the licensed will be
approved.<br>
<br>
Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chair, License Committee<br>
Open Source Initiative<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/17/2023 8:41 AM, Andreas
Nettsträter wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB">Dear
all,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB">attached
you’ll find the updated version of our license.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB">As
discussed earlier, we’ve adapted the license name; we
have corrected the parentheses in the first sentence of
article 4 and we’ve deleted a paragraph from article 4.
In our view, paragraph 1 of article 4 already ensures
the flow down of the licence and conditions, so that 4.4
is not necessarily needed. Therefore, we dropped it
completely.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB">Andreas</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB">Von:</span></b><span
lang="EN-GB"> License-review <</span><a
href="mailto:license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-GB">license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org</span></a><span
lang="EN-GB">>
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Andreas Nettsträter<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 13. Januar 2023 14:28<br>
<b>An:</b> License submissions for OSI review <</span><a
href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-GB">license-review@lists.opensource.org</span></a><span
lang="EN-GB">><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [License-review] For Approval:
Open Logistics License v1.2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB">Dear
Carlo, all,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB">thanks
for the advice. We already have some ideas to make it
more understandable.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB">I’ll
share an updated version (including some other discussed
topics) of the license within the next days.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB">Andreas</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB">Von:</span></b><span
lang="EN-GB"> License-review <</span><a
href="mailto:license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-GB">license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org</span></a><span
lang="EN-GB">>
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Carlo Piana<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 31. Dezember 2022 11:27<br>
<b>An:</b> License submissions for OSI review <</span><a
href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-GB">license-review@lists.opensource.org</span></a><span
lang="EN-GB">><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [License-review] For Approval:
Open Logistics License v1.2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"
lang="EN-GB">Andreas,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"
lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"
lang="EN-GB">definitely not authoritative, but since
I am the one who raised the subject, I feel an
obligation to provide a potential solution.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"
lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"
lang="EN-GB">I would not depart from the common
practice of requesting that the recipients of
distributed software be notified of the legal
language in some form, by including the whole text
of the license along the distribution, or by making
reference to a canonical online resource, and by
requesting an appropriate legal notice. There are
plenty of examples out there, all remixing the same
concepts and language.
</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">See
e.g. the GNU *GPLv3.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">All
the best,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Carlo</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">
<hr width="100%" size="2" align="center">
</span></div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF
1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"
lang="EN-GB">Da:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"
lang="EN-GB">"Andreas Nettsträter" <</span><a
href="mailto:andreas.nettstraeter@openlogisticsfoundation.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"
lang="EN-GB">andreas.nettstraeter@openlogisticsfoundation.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"
lang="EN-GB">><br>
<b>A: </b>"License submissions for OSI review"
<</span><a
href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"
lang="EN-GB">license-review@lists.opensource.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"
lang="EN-GB">><br>
<b>Inviato: </b>Venerdì, 23 dicembre 2022
15:01:24<br>
<b>Oggetto: </b>Re: [License-review] For
Approval: Open Logistics License v1.2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF
1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB">Dear Pam, dear Carlo,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB">the last bulletpoint of Article 4 was
meant to implement an obligation to flow down the
obligations of the other bulletpoints of Article
4; if the provision requires modification to make
this clear, we can make the respective amendments.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB">How could we formulate it in a better
way?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Andreas</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">Von:</span></b><span
style="color:black"> License-review <</span><a
href="mailto:license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org</a><span
style="color:black">>
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Pamela Chestek<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 14. </span><span
style="color:black" lang="EN-GB">Dezember 2022
18:05<br>
<b>An:</b> </span><a
href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-GB">license-review@lists.opensource.org</span></a><span
style="color:black" lang="EN-GB"><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [License-review] For
Approval: Open Logistics License v1.2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB">On 12/14/2022 4:24 AM, Carlo Piana
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"
lang="EN-GB">On 12/5/2022 2:45 PM, Carlo
Piana wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre><span style="color:#007CFF" lang="EN-GB">You must ensure that the recipients of the Subject Matter of the License or</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="color:#007CFF" lang="EN-GB">Derivative Works are obligated to incorporate the provisions of this Section 4</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="color:#007CFF" lang="EN-GB">into any license under which they distribute the Subject Matter of the License</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="color:#007CFF" lang="EN-GB">or Derivative Works to any other recipients.</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="color:#007CFF" lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><span style="color:black" lang="EN-GB">This provision requires the "You" to a legal effect. As a general remark, this is an open ended obligation and IMVHO a bad design decision, since the legal effect depends on many different circumstances outside the control of the "You", including intent, capacity, errors, lack of proper form etc. You can surely include perform an obligation as a condition of the grant, but including a legal effect is to me really really seeking for trouble.</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black" lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"
lang="EN-GB">Carlo, I'm not following what
you're saying. Are you saying that the
Licensor has some liability if the user
doesn't actually incorporate the provisions
of Section 4 into their downstream license?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB">Sorry Pam, I have written poorly</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB">I meant "This provision requires
the "You" to **achieve** a legal effect." The
obligation requires that *the recipients** be
"obligated". Here it is more of a guarantee,
something that you are liable for and not
necessarily control, so the risk is on you
whatever it happens.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB">Thanks, that's very helpful.<br>
<br>
Pam<br>
<br>
Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
PO Box 2492<br>
Raleigh, NC 27602<br>
</span><a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
lang="EN-GB">pamela@chesteklegal.com</span></a><span
style="color:black" lang="EN-GB"><br>
(919) 800-8033<br>
</span><a
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<pre>The opinions expressed in this email are those of the sender and not necessarily those of the Open Source Initiative. Communication from the Open Source Initiative will be sent from an opensource.org email address.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
The opinions expressed in this email are those of the sender and not necessarily those of the Open Source Initiative. Communication from the Open Source Initiative will be sent from an opensource.org email address.
License-review mailing list
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