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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear McCoy,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB">following Apache and the EVB-IT*, we have chosen a catch all rule to cover as many cases as possible. This formulation is completely compatible with German law.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB">*EVB-IT = Ergänzende Vertragsbedingungen für die Beschaffung von IT-Leistungen / Supplementary Terms of Contract for the Procurement of IT Services)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Andreas<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Von:</b> License-review <license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org>
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>McCoy Smith<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 23:49<br>
<b>An:</b> 'License submissions for OSI review' <license-review@lists.opensource.org><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [License-review] For Approval: Open Logistics License v1.3 (was v1.2)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">One thing I find curious about this license:<br>
It is designed to be interpreted under German law, but at least in its intellectual property grants, it is written as if it were to be interpreted under USA law.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">So the copyright grants are the following:<br>
reproduce, prepare Derivative Works of, publicly display, publicly perform, and distribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Those are the rights granted under US law, 17 USC 106. The German Copyright Act Sec. 15 et seq. expresses the rights differently.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The patent grants are the following:<br>
produce, have produced, use, offer for sale, sell, import and otherwise transfer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">This looks more like the grants in German Patent Act Sec. 9, although it’s more a hybrid of 35 US 271(a) & German Patent Act Sec 9.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Shouldn’t you be using the rights granted under the German Copyright and Patent Acts instead if you want this to be a Germany specific license?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> License-review <<a href="mailto:license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org">license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Andreas Nettsträter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 17, 2023 5:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> License submissions for OSI review <<a href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org">license-review@lists.opensource.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [License-review] For Approval: Open Logistics License v1.3 (was v1.2)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">attached you’ll find the updated version of our license.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">106<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">As discussed earlier, we’ve adapted the license name; we have corrected the parentheses in the first sentence of article 4 and we’ve deleted a paragraph from article 4. In our view,
paragraph 1 of article 4 already ensures the flow down of the licence and conditions, so that 4.4 is not necessarily needed. Therefore, we dropped it completely.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Andreas<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB">Von:</span></b><span lang="EN-GB"> License-review <</span><a href="mailto:license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org"><span lang="EN-GB">license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org</span></a><span lang="EN-GB">>
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Andreas Nettsträter<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 13. Januar 2023 14:28<br>
<b>An:</b> License submissions for OSI review <</span><a href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"><span lang="EN-GB">license-review@lists.opensource.org</span></a><span lang="EN-GB">><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [License-review] For Approval: Open Logistics License v1.2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear Carlo, all,</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">thanks for the advice. We already have some ideas to make it more understandable.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I’ll share an updated version (including some other discussed topics) of the license within the next days.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Andreas</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB">Von:</span></b><span lang="EN-GB"> License-review <</span><a href="mailto:license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org"><span lang="EN-GB">license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org</span></a><span lang="EN-GB">>
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Carlo Piana<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 31. Dezember 2022 11:27<br>
<b>An:</b> License submissions for OSI review <</span><a href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"><span lang="EN-GB">license-review@lists.opensource.org</span></a><span lang="EN-GB">><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [License-review] For Approval: Open Logistics License v1.2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Andreas,
</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">definitely not authoritative, but since I am the one who raised the subject, I feel an obligation to provide a potential solution.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">I would not depart from the common practice of requesting that the recipients of distributed software be notified of the legal language in some form,
by including the whole text of the license along the distribution, or by making reference to a canonical online resource, and by requesting an appropriate legal notice. There are plenty of examples out there, all remixing the same concepts and language.
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">See e.g. the GNU *GPLv3.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">All the best,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Carlo</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Da:
</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">"Andreas Nettsträter" <</span><a href="mailto:andreas.nettstraeter@openlogisticsfoundation.org"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">andreas.nettstraeter@openlogisticsfoundation.org</span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">><br>
<b>A: </b>"License submissions for OSI review" <</span><a href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">license-review@lists.opensource.org</span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">><br>
<b>Inviato: </b>Venerdì, 23 dicembre 2022 15:01:24<br>
<b>Oggetto: </b>Re: [License-review] For Approval: Open Logistics License v1.2</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Dear Pam, dear Carlo,</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">the last bulletpoint of Article 4 was meant to implement an obligation to flow down the obligations of the other bulletpoints of Article 4; if the provision requires modification to make this clear,
we can make the respective amendments.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">How could we formulate it in a better way?</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Andreas</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">Von:</span></b><span style="color:black"> License-review <</span><a href="mailto:license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org">license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org</a><span style="color:black">>
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Pamela Chestek<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 14. </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Dezember 2022 18:05<br>
<b>An:</b> </span><a href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"><span lang="EN-GB">license-review@lists.opensource.org</span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [License-review] For Approval: Open Logistics License v1.2</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">On 12/14/2022 4:24 AM, Carlo Piana wrote:</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">On 12/5/2022 2:45 PM, Carlo Piana wrote:</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#007CFF">You must ensure that the recipients of the Subject Matter of the License or</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#007CFF">Derivative Works are obligated to incorporate the provisions of this Section 4</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#007CFF">into any license under which they distribute the Subject Matter of the License</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#007CFF">or Derivative Works to any other recipients.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#007CFF"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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<pre><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">This provision requires the "You" to a legal effect. As a general remark, this is an open ended obligation and IMVHO a bad design decision, since the legal effect depends on many different circumstances outside the control of the "You", including intent, capacity, errors, lack of proper form etc. You can surely include perform an obligation as a condition of the grant, but including a legal effect is to me really really seeking for trouble.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Carlo, I'm not following what you're saying. Are you saying that the Licensor has some liability if the user doesn't actually incorporate the provisions
of Section 4 into their downstream license?</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Sorry Pam, I have written poorly</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">I meant "This provision requires the "You" to **achieve** a legal effect." The obligation requires that *the recipients** be "obligated". Here it is more of a guarantee, something that you are liable
for and not necessarily control, so the risk is on you whatever it happens.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Thanks, that's very helpful.<br>
<br>
Pam<br>
<br>
Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
PO Box 2492<br>
Raleigh, NC 27602<br>
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