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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>One thing I find curious about this license:<br>It is designed to be interpreted under German law, but at least in its intellectual property grants, it is written as if it were to be interpreted under USA law.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>So the copyright grants are the following:<br>reproduce, prepare Derivative Works of, publicly display, publicly perform, and distribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Those are the rights granted under US law, 17 USC 106. The German Copyright Act Sec. 15 et seq. expresses the rights differently.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The patent grants are the following:<br>produce, have produced, use, offer for sale, sell, import and otherwise transfer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>This looks more like the grants in German Patent Act Sec. 9, although it’s more a hybrid of 35 US 271(a) & German Patent Act Sec 9.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Shouldn’t you be using the rights granted under the German Copyright and Patent Acts instead if you want this to be a Germany specific license?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> License-review <license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Andreas Nettsträter<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 17, 2023 5:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> License submissions for OSI review <license-review@lists.opensource.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [License-review] For Approval: Open Logistics License v1.3 (was v1.2)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>attached you’ll find the updated version of our license.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>106<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>As discussed earlier, we’ve adapted the license name; we have corrected the parentheses in the first sentence of article 4 and we’ve deleted a paragraph from article 4. In our view, paragraph 1 of article 4 already ensures the flow down of the licence and conditions, so that 4.4 is not necessarily needed. Therefore, we dropped it completely.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Andreas<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>Von:</b> License-review <<span lang=DE><a href="mailto:license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org"><span lang=EN-GB>license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org</span></a></span>> <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Andreas Nettsträter<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 13. Januar 2023 14:28<br><b>An:</b> License submissions for OSI review <<span lang=DE><a href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"><span lang=EN-GB>license-review@lists.opensource.org</span></a></span>><br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [License-review] For Approval: Open Logistics License v1.2<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Dear Carlo, all,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>thanks for the advice. We already have some ideas to make it more understandable.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I’ll share an updated version (including some other discussed topics) of the license within the next days.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Andreas</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>Von:</b> License-review <<span lang=DE><a href="mailto:license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org"><span lang=EN-GB>license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org</span></a></span>> <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Carlo Piana<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 31. Dezember 2022 11:27<br><b>An:</b> License submissions for OSI review <<span lang=DE><a href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"><span lang=EN-GB>license-review@lists.opensource.org</span></a></span>><br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [License-review] For Approval: Open Logistics License v1.2<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Andreas, </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>definitely not authoritative, but since I am the one who raised the subject, I feel an obligation to provide a potential solution.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I would not depart from the common practice of requesting that the recipients of distributed software be notified of the legal language in some form, by including the whole text of the license along the distribution, or by making reference to a canonical online resource, and by requesting an appropriate legal notice. There are plenty of examples out there, all remixing the same concepts and language. </span><span lang=DE style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>See e.g. the GNU *GPLv3.</span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>All the best,</span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Carlo</span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span lang=DE style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Da: </span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>"Andreas Nettsträter" <</span><span lang=DE><a href="mailto:andreas.nettstraeter@openlogisticsfoundation.org"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>andreas.nettstraeter@openlogisticsfoundation.org</span></a></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>><br><b>A: </b>"License submissions for OSI review" <</span><span lang=DE><a href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>license-review@lists.opensource.org</span></a></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>><br><b>Inviato: </b>Venerdì, 23 dicembre 2022 15:01:24<br><b>Oggetto: </b>Re: [License-review] For Approval: Open Logistics License v1.2</span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Dear Pam, dear Carlo,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'>the last bulletpoint of Article 4 was meant to implement an obligation to flow down the obligations of the other bulletpoints of Article 4; if the provision requires modification to make this clear, we can make the respective amendments.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>How could we formulate it in a better way?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='color:black'>Regards</span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='color:black'>Andreas</span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=DE style='color:black'>Von:</span></b><span lang=DE style='color:black'> License-review <</span><span lang=DE><a href="mailto:license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org">license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org</a><span style='color:black'>> <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Pamela Chestek<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 14. </span></span><span style='color:black'>Dezember 2022 18:05<br><b>An:</b> </span><span lang=DE><a href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"><span lang=EN-GB>license-review@lists.opensource.org</span></a></span><span style='color:black'><br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [License-review] For Approval: Open Logistics License v1.2</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>On 12/14/2022 4:24 AM, Carlo Piana wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>On 12/5/2022 2:45 PM, Carlo Piana wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre><span style='color:#007CFF'>You must ensure that the recipients of the Subject Matter of the License or</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span style='color:#007CFF'>Derivative Works are obligated to incorporate the provisions of this Section 4</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span style='color:#007CFF'>into any license under which they distribute the Subject Matter of the License</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span style='color:#007CFF'>or Derivative Works to any other recipients.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span style='color:#007CFF'> </span><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre><span style='color:black'>This provision requires the "You" to a legal effect. As a general remark, this is an open ended obligation and IMVHO a bad design decision, since the legal effect depends on many different circumstances outside the control of the "You", including intent, capacity, errors, lack of proper form etc. You can surely include perform an obligation as a condition of the grant, but including a legal effect is to me really really seeking for trouble.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Carlo, I'm not following what you're saying. Are you saying that the Licensor has some liability if the user doesn't actually incorporate the provisions of Section 4 into their downstream license?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Sorry Pam, I have written poorly</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I meant "This provision requires the "You" to **achieve** a legal effect." The obligation requires that *the recipients** be "obligated". Here it is more of a guarantee, something that you are liable for and not necessarily control, so the risk is on you whatever it happens.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Thanks, that's very helpful.<br><br>Pam<br><br>Pamela S. Chestek<br>Chestek Legal<br>PO Box 2492<br>Raleigh, NC 27602<br></span><span lang=DE><a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com" target="_blank"><span lang=EN-GB>pamela@chesteklegal.com</span></a></span><span style='color:black'><br>(919) 800-8033<br></span><span lang=DE><a href="https://deu01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chesteklegal.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Candreas.nettstraeter%40openlogisticsfoundation.org%7C557638f3b6bb4821200b08daf56a2618%7Cb346d634acfb42c7bd44f1557ee89b1b%7C1%7C0%7C638092133503191856%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Hnjr4Yeng9ad2B0bSZicC2uUbgrgRvn%2FWps0AKkwlIQ%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span lang=EN-GB>www.chesteklegal.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br>_______________________________________________<br>The opinions expressed in this email are those of the sender and not necessarily those of the Open Source Initiative. Communication from the Open Source Initiative will be sent from an opensource.org email address.<br><br>License-review mailing list<br></span><span lang=DE><a href="mailto:License-review@lists.opensource.org"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>License-review@lists.opensource.org</span></a></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br></span><span lang=DE><a href="https://deu01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.opensource.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flicense-review_lists.opensource.org&data=05%7C01%7Candreas.nettstraeter%40openlogisticsfoundation.org%7C557638f3b6bb4821200b08daf56a2618%7Cb346d634acfb42c7bd44f1557ee89b1b%7C1%7C0%7C638092133503191856%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xmRhW1gmPiEuIxaUtxMI0LS4THxYNTkwoiQuscRu%2FUY%3D&reserved=0"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>http://lists.opensource.org/mailman/listinfo/license-review_lists.opensource.org</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></body></html>