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Thanks Andreas, that's very helpful.<br>
<br>
Pam<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
PO Box 2492<br>
Raleigh, NC 27602<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
(919) 800-8033<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.chesteklegal.com">www.chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/23/2022 6:05 AM, Andreas
Nettsträter wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:FRYP281MB023765C74EBC90FDF6A72AB89BE99@FRYP281MB0237.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Hi Pam,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I’ve got some feedback
from our lawyer:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">“In Germany, but also in
other EU member states, a provision in general terms and
conditions that restricts the rights of the contractual
partner "to the extent permitted by law" is invalid. The
rationale behind this is that the party using general terms
and conditions must inform the contractual partner in a
transparent manner of the conditions that apply and the
contractual partner cannot be required to check the extent
to which a permissible deviation from the statutory rule is
possible. Ineffectiveness leads to the law applicable in the
absence of a contractual provision being applicable.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Of course, this do not
need to lead to concrete problems and in the end, I guess,
it could have the same outcome. But we wanted to make the
formulation as unambiguous and explicit as possible.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Andreas<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Von:</b> License-review
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org"><license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org></a>
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Pamela Chestek<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag, 11. Dezember 2022 17:24<br>
<b>An:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org">license-review@lists.opensource.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [License-review] Disclaimer of warranty
under German law (was For Approval: Open Logistics License
v1.2)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 12/5/2022 2:45 PM, Carlo Piana wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre><span style="color:#007CFF">Rationale:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:#007CFF">This new license is intended to represent the rights and obligations of an<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:#007CFF">established license, such as Apache v2, while respecting the differences<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:#007CFF">between US and German law. The changes were mainly done in the paragraphs<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:#007CFF">regarding warranty (limitation of the warranty to comply with legal<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:#007CFF">requirements) and liability (intent cannot be excluded under German law).<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>Indeed this is true also under Italian Law and to my understanding a few other laws.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'm just curious. This is true under US law
as well. We generally address it in the way that the Apache
license does, with something like "Unless required by
applicable law or agreed to in writing," any warranty is
disclaimed. Why doesn't that work in Germany, and what would
be the outcome in Germany if the license didn't expressly
exclude intentional or grossly negligent conduct? Is the
entire paragraph discarded, and so someone who has a claim for
mere negligence has a warranty despite the effort to disclaim
it?<br>
<br>
Pam<br>
<br>
Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
PO Box 2492<br>
Raleigh, NC 27602<br>
<a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
+1 919-800-8033<o:p></o:p></p>
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