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Larry,<br>
<br>
You've misunderstood my question. No one questioned that the term is
enforceable or that the licensee has agreed to it. The question was
whether the phrase in the 3D license is a condition on the copyright
grant or not. If it is a condition, then the copyright license
terminates on a licensee's failure to act lawfully, which, as you
agree, is a violation of OSD 6. You seem to take the view that it's
not a condition. I was asking you to parse the language in the 3D
Slicer license to explain how you reached that legal conclusion.<br>
<br>
Pam<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
PO Box 2492<br>
Raleigh, NC 27602<br>
919-800-8033<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.chesteklegal.com">www.chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/8/2021 9:02 PM, Lawrence Rosen
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:090b01d75ccb$31f4eb10$95dec130$@rosenlaw.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Pam, I’m moving this to
license-discuss@.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">If you believe
that the language in the 3D Slicer license doesn't terminate
the license I'd be interested in hearing how you parse the
sentence. For your reference, the sentence is: "You further
agree to use, reproduce, make derivative works of, display and
distribute the Software in compliance with all applicable
governmental laws, regulations and orders, including without
limitation those relating to export and import control."<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As I tried to make clear in my own
licenses, I don’t believe it is appropriate to require a
licensee “to agree” to anything in “a unilateral contract”.
Perhaps that is too subtle for this list, but I believe there
is legal authority for that difference from “a bilateral
contract” in which both parties accept obligations. I was very
careful in my drafting.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is a legal distinction from “a
condition” that must be met by every licensee. Please review
the legal distinction between “unilateral” and “bilateral”
contracts. (Google is helpful here!)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So since the 3D Slicer license requires an
agreement from the licensee, that turns this into a bilateral
contract. I agree with others on this list, including you,
that requiring a licensee to agree to honor the law goes
beyond the open source definition. On the other hand (since
every lawyer has two hands!) a failure to obey the law can
result in legal penalties, not from the licensor but from the
government. I do not believe it is inappropriate for OSI, and
individual licenses, to remind licensees about that. It
doesn’t hurt to do so. As McCoy suggests, it is probably
surplusage.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We tackled this problem at OSI years ago in
the context of export restrictions in US law. Several drafters
attempted to insert an “export” provision in their licenses,
which OSI rejected. But a licensee’s rights to certain
software may be withdrawn by the government if they attempt to
export in contravention to that law. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As for what Thai law mandates or prohibits,
I say nothing.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">License drafting is not a job for the
amateur.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">/Larry<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> License-review
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org"><license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org></a> <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Pamela Chestek<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 8, 2021 4:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org">license-review@lists.opensource.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [License-review] request for review of
the 3D Slicer License<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Larry,<br>
<br>
As others have pointed out, there's a difference between my
duty to comply with laws, in which case compliance with those
laws may mean I am not at liberty to exercise the license
granted to me, and whether or not the license to me terminates
because I failed in a duty not to break the law. It is the
latter situation that is a violation of OSD6 and the objection
to the license under review. <br>
<br>
If you believe that the language in the 3D Slicer license
doesn't terminate the license I'd be interested in hearing how
you parse the sentence. For your reference, the sentence is:
"You further agree to use, reproduce, make derivative works
of, display and distribute the Software in compliance with all
applicable governmental laws, regulations and orders,
including without limitation those relating to export and
import control."<br>
<br>
Pam<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
PO Box 2492<br>
Raleigh, NC 27602<br>
919-800-8033<br>
<a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.chesteklegal.com" moz-do-not-send="true">www.chesteklegal.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
On 6/8/2021 4:49 PM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Simon, I’ve never been to Thailand nor
reviewed its software laws. But in the US, if you distribute
open source software that violates the export law of the US,
you could go to jail. “Open source” is irrelevant. Copyright
law is irrelevant. /Larry<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Lawrence Rosen<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt">707-478-8932</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt">3001 King
Ranch Rd., Ukiah, CA 95482</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt"><a
href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563C1">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt">LinkedIn:
Lawrence Rosen</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Simon Phipps <a
href="mailto:simon@webmink.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><simon@webmink.com></a>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 8, 2021 12:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Lawrence Rosen <a
href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><lrosen@rosenlaw.com></a>;
License submissions for OSI review <a
href="mailto:license-review@lists.opensource.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><license-review@lists.opensource.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [License-review] request for review of
the 3D Slicer License<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 6:46 PM
Lawrence Rosen <<a
href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<div>
<div>
<p class="gmail-m438978589280261809msoplaintext"
style="margin-left:.5in">Here is AFL 3.0, section
15:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m438978589280261809msoplaintext"
style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt">15) <b>Right to Use.</b> You
may use the Original Work in all ways not
otherwise restricted or conditioned by this
License or by law, and Licensor promises not to
interfere with or be responsible for such uses
by You.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Please help me understand this. If
I were in Thailand and used AFL 3.0 licensed software
to publish a call for a republic, would I be in breach
of the author's copyright as well as in breach of
their <i>lese majeste</i> laws? <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">S.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>The opinions expressed in this email are those of the sender and not necessarily those of the Open Source Initiative. Communication from the Open Source Initiative will be sent from an opensource.org email address.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>License-review mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:License-review@lists.opensource.org" moz-do-not-send="true">License-review@lists.opensource.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://lists.opensource.org/mailman/listinfo/license-review_lists.opensource.org" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.opensource.org/mailman/listinfo/license-review_lists.opensource.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
The opinions expressed in this email are those of the sender and not necessarily those of the Open Source Initiative. Official statements by the Open Source Initiative will be sent from an opensource.org email address.
License-discuss mailing list
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