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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'>Pam Chestek wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'>> </span>More importantly, why do you think a court would necessarily exclude it as a possible interpretation? For starters, I am only stating the view of the U.S. Copyright Office: "As a general rule, a computer program and the screen displays generated by that program are considered the same work, because the program code contains fixed expression that produces the screen displays." Copyright Compendium § 721.10(A). <br><br><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'>Pam, now I am confused by you and by the Copyright Office. Forget CAL and forget AGPL. If a normal GPL program on <u>your</u> computer causes <u>my</u> computer to display a red square, have you distributed <u>your</u> GPL program to <u>my</u> computer? That sounds like a real reach for copyleft, even for a sophisticated API that makes computers do things. I now worry about that so-called "general rule" for GPL email programs! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'>I think Van's description of network interaction is much more logical and much less frightening about overreach of copyleft. Distributing the <u>code</u> is what counts, not distributing the <u>data or the output</u>. /Larry<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='color:windowtext'> License-review <license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Pamela Chestek<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 26, 2019 6:05 AM<br><b>To:</b> license-review@lists.opensource.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [License-review] For approval: The Cryptographic Autonomy License (Beta 2)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>Combining your two emails.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>On 8/25/2019 10:12 PM, VanL wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Hi Pam, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>You are interpreting the CAL beyond where it would go. In particular:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Assume I downloaded code to my web server that creates a display on my<br>website, a red square. It was easy for me to install, I just went to<br>WordPress Plugins and, voila! I do not distribute any code to the viewer<br>of my website, no Javascript, nothing. It is just displayed on my<br>website.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>The key question is whether this red square is part of the expression of the downloaded code, and if that expression is sent to your website visitor.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>If the red square is just the output of the code, then you don't need to do anything. The CAL does not impose any restrictions on you whatsoever.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>If you send "red square generating code" to your website visitor, then the CAL requires you to provide source code.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>This is actually identical to what you would be required to do under the vanilla GPL.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Also, work regard to my comments about the AGPL: I am simply commenting on interpretations I have seen in the wild.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>For example: <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="https://github.com/algorand/go-algorand/blob/master/COPYING_FAQ">https://github.com/algorand/go-algorand/blob/master/COPYING_FAQ</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>and <br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Reading again, I think I need to further develop this point. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Under most circumstances, the CAL would not reach the output of a program. For example, if you had an image generator program (like your red square) the CAL would not apply to the output. If you had a CAL licensed Emacs, the CAL would not apply to the programs you wrote.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>The CAL applies when some aspect of the program itself is sent to a third party. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>So I can't say that the CAL would never apply to your widget. It depends on the implementation. But for your red square program, it would probably not apply.<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><br>You have described "distributing." What, then, do "displaying," "communicating," or "making perceptible" "any part, aspect, or element of the Work" mean if they don't mean simply having a red square show up on my website? If I have CAL-licensed code that provides instructions for creating a red square on a web page, how is that not "making perceptible" the Work? <br><br>Have you forgone your theory that making an API available is "displaying," "communicating," or "making perceptible" "any part, aspect, or element of the Work"? No one is getting the literal code there either. Why is the display of a red square not just an abstraction of the literal code in the same way an API is? <br><br>More importantly, why do you think a court would necessarily exclude it as a possible More importantly, why do you think a court would necessarily exclude it as a possible interpretation? For starters, I am only stating the view of the U.S. Copyright Office: "As a general rule, a computer program and the screen displays generated by that program are considered the same work, because the program code contains fixed expression that produces the screen displays." Copyright Compendium § 721.10(A). <br>interpretation? For starters, I am only stating the view of the U.S. Copyright Office: "As a general rule, a computer program and the screen displays generated by that program are considered the same work, because the program code contains fixed expression that produces the screen displays." Copyright Compendium § 721.10(A). <br><br>I was referring to your position that installation and configuration of software creates a derivative work. I don't disagree with you that it's a plausible argument that copyleft can reach new implementations of your API under the CAL or the GPL.<br><br>Pam<br><br>Pamela S. Chestek<br>Chestek Legal<br>PO Box 2492<br>Raleigh, NC 27602<br>919-800-8033<br><a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br><a href="http://www.chesteklegal.com">www.chesteklegal.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>