<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Pam,</div><div><br></div><div>You bring up a number of points across a couple email messages. I am going to try to consolidate my response.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 8:04 AM Pamela Chestek <<a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
Van, saying that an extreme interpretation of the AGPL is what your<br>
software's intended scope is doesn't win you any points in my book. Some<br>
people hold the view that the AGPL goes too far already, so saying that<br>
your license bakes that extreme view in only works against you IMO.<span class="gmail-im"><br></span></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This is a fair point. But:</div><div><br></div><div>1) We are making worst-case assumptions about the CAL in this forum. That is understood, it is for the purpose of stress-testing the license. But then is it not fair when comparing to the AGPL - the closest analogue - to show how the same assumptions would play out? <br></div><div><br></div><div>2) More generally, I can make a number of simplifying assumptions about your use, or the Twitter widget, that would reduce or eliminate the compliance burden. For example, if your Twitter widget only worked on your server, and it didn't communicate any aspect of itself to a visitor to your website, the CAL wouldn't reach it. You would have no compliance burden at all. I can even argue that such an implementation might even be more probable. <br></div><div><br></div><div>But that is fighting the hypothetical. I would submit that any copyleft license, regardless of the scope, has hard cases. The goal here is to analyze the cases as they are presented, in the light most unfavorable to the CAL, and present the results transparently. I don't flinch away from the hard cases, and I have tried to write the CAL so as to minimize them to the greatest extent possible.<br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br>
<div class="gmail-m_178228254900935061moz-cite-prefix">On 8/22/2019 9:12 PM, Bruce Perens via
License-review wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">But would it not be sufficient in this case to
simply tell folks where you got the source, given that it's a
public repository? You didn't modify it yourself.</div>
</blockquote></div><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Not necessarily. The source code obligation says that the repository
must persist as long as I am using the software and for a year after
that. So do I keep checking the original source and make sure they
haven' t changed it and it's still the same software that I used?
What if they update and I don't? And to have to do that for a year
after I'm not even using the software? This avenue for compliance is
pretty burdensome.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This is roughly equivalent to the "offer of source" in the A/GPL, and that has to persist for three years. By my reading, the CAL is less burdensome in that regard.<br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
You pointed out the difference, it has to be modified, plus it must be<br>
software that involves remote interaction. That suggests at least some<br>
degree of familiarity with software beyond simple use, so the compliance<br>
obligation perhaps isn't as unreasonable. You seem to be suggesting that<br>
an "aircraft-carrier-sized escape hatch" is a bad thing, but I assume<br>
it's for people like me. I don't have any compliance requirement for my<br>
Twitter widget, for two reasons, I didn't modify the software and it's<br>
not interactive. It's the exclusion that makes the AGPL consistent with<br>
a foundational aspect of the GPL licenses, the act of running the<br>
software is not restricted.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I'd disagree with your characterization here. By the standards of the AGPL, the twitter widget is "Interactive." Under an equivalent reading of the license, it is also modified. Thus, I would suggest that the compliance burdens are the same (or, as I point out with regard to the offer of source, actually less burdensome).<br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">Thanks,<br></div><div class="gmail_quote">Van<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div></div>