<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
p.m-1012256828208710277msolistparagraph, li.m-1012256828208710277msolistparagraph, div.m-1012256828208710277msolistparagraph
{mso-style-name:m_-1012256828208710277msolistparagraph;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:1261253663;
mso-list-template-ids:-1992241808;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:2.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:2.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:3.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:3.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:4.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
--></style>
</head>
<body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">That makes sense. Simple modifications don’t convey any rights.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is the implication then that I can request any data for which I have ownership interest? I have photos for which I have a copyright license but the original photographer still owns the copyright. How does the operator tell the difference
between ownership interest and a license to use? Does a license to use a work in certain circumstances give me possessory interest? I haven’t run into possessory interest used before in the context copyright (IANAL).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Do I need to provide the operator with a list of items I believe I have ownership interest or can I just say “hey give me everything I own?” If I can get data back where I only have a license can I request any data that I have a valid
license whether I uploaded it or not? Can my wife ask for all of my data based on community property interest?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">You also deleted the section regarding the difficulty of an operator returning data that is difficult to access from the provided software. I think you avoided answering Bruce when he asked that as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is this a can of legal worms I want to open as a developer or user? Because CAL seems problematic for everyone except the original developer even for folks trying to adhere to the license in good faith. If the data is present but hard
to access the non-developer operator is going to have significant issues in complying with the requirements.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">ObDis: Speaking for myself<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On 5/10/19, 9:00 AM, "License-review on behalf of VanL" <<a href="mailto:license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org">license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org</a> on behalf of
<a href="mailto:van.lindberg@gmail.com">van.lindberg@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Hi Nigel,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On Fri, May 10, 2019, 7:32 AM Tzeng, Nigel H. <<a href="mailto:Nigel.Tzeng@jhuapl.edu">Nigel.Tzeng@jhuapl.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
So…taking the photo site as the example I can:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-1012256828208710277msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">a.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>Take user image<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-1012256828208710277msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">b.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>Modify it, creating a “modified” or derivative data (denoise, change size, fix white balance, add a watermark, etc)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-1012256828208710277msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">c.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>Delete the original image from my server<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-1012256828208710277msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">d.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>Have no requirement to return the “modified form” of the data achieving vendor lock in<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Good hypo. I see that I was being too imprecise when responding to Bruce.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">The CAL enforces data portability for data that is 1) an input or output of the software, and 2) in which you have an ownership or posessory interest.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Thus the analysis is how the IP laws of your jurisdiction treat the data stored with the operator. Does the law recognize an ownership or posessory interest? Then you can get the data back. If not, then no.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Comparing and contrasting the two hypotheticals, I see that I was implicitly saying that I don't see that the law would recognize that Anna had an ownership interest in Betty's block, but that the law does recognize
my ownership interest in my photos that you have denoised.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Van<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>