<div dir="auto">Hi Cem,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Could you give us an idea of how widely this is being discussed at the USG? As an outsider it's unclear if this is just the ARL and NASA or much broader. I'd expect attorneys with NASA to have a different set of concerns than those at the GSA or USPS. In particular, is the USDS in the loop? Coordinating OSS efforts within the US federal government seems like something that would naturally fall within their remit.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">As a staunch anti-proliferationist, I think the OSI should be hesitant to approve a narrowly tailored and legally novel license. It would be helpful to know if severability and contract concerns represent consensus legal opinions within the USG. I'm more than happy to be misinformed, but there's context that I don't have.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Brendan</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Thu, Jun 21, 2018, 3:38 PM Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US) <<a href="mailto:cem.f.karan.civ@mail.mil">cem.f.karan.civ@mail.mil</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="gmail_quote">> From: License-review [<a href="mailto:license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">license-review-bounces@lists.opensource.org</a>] on behalf of Richard Fontana [<a href="mailto:richard.fontana@opensource.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">richard.fontana@opensource.org</a>]</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 2:48 PM</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">> To: License submissions for OSI review</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">> Subject: Re: [License-review] [Non-DoD Source] Re: NOSA 2.0 and Government licensing [was: moving to an issue tracker [was Re: Some notes for license submitters]]</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">> All active links contained in this email were disabled. Please verify the identity of the sender, and confirm the authenticity of all links contained within the message prior to copying and pasting the address to a Web browser. </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:53 PM, Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US) <<a href="mailto:cem.f.karan.civ@mail.mil" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">cem.f.karan.civ@mail.mil</a> < Caution-mailto:<a href="mailto:cem.f.karan.civ@mail.mil" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">cem.f.karan.civ@mail.mil</a> > > wrote:</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">>> The problem is that if that is one clause of a larger license, does the fact</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">>> that one clause is unenforceable affect the rest of the license? Different</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">>> lawyers have differing opinions, and as far as I know, it hasn't been settled</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">>> by the courts yet. This is the crux of why the government is looking to</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">>> create a new license that is not based on copyright. So that it isn't on the</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">>> hook for warranty and liability because it made a copyright claim that it</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">>> doesn't have, and so that downstream users are protected when they use</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">>> and incorporate GOSS into their own projects.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">> Do you mean protected from the US government itself?</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">No, patent trolls and the like. Since their basic business model is to find</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">people and groups to sue over patent infringement, it is in their best</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">interest to increase the number of infractions. The easy way is to contribute</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">infringing material to the USG, wait for the USG to incorporate and</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">redistribute it, argue in court that the entire license is invalid because the</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">USG doesn't have copyright, and then sue everyone they can for infringing. I</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">know that this sounds far-fetched, but the reason I'm worried is because of</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">this: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rambus#Lawsuits" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rambus#Lawsuits</a>. </div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">Even if the courts throw it out, it will take time to defend against, and will</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">be politically embarrassing. The knee-jerk reaction of a bureaucracy when</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">faced with embarrassment is to stop the actions that lead to the</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">embarrassment, which in this case would be GOSS. GOSS is still very, very</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">new, and like a seedling, it is easy to kill it. Once there is a long track</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">record of GOSS, it will be much stronger, and much better able to withstand a</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">few blows, but until then, we have to nurture and protect it as far as we're</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">able to.</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">> Regarding the risks faced by the US government that you are describing, I'd</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">> like to hear a US government lawyer walk us through how that would play out in</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">> a real world case. I am having some trouble seeing it.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">> Richard</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">I understand, but I hope that the example above will explain things clearly</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">for you.</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">That said, if the contract amendment idea is something that OSI is willing to</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">at least look at and possibly vote on in the near future, I can look into </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">whether or not that will satisfy USG lawyers. I've already called Rob Padilla</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">at NASA, but he was running to a meeting so couldn't discuss it further. I've</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">also run the idea past ARL's lawyers, and they're open to thinking about it.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">I'll press them to put together at least preliminary language ASAP that we can </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">present and discuss on this mailing list.</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">Thanks,</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">Cem Karan</div>
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