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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoPlainText>John Cowan on Friday, September 12, 2014:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> Here's the whole hypo: ....<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>John, let's play hypos again! I feel somewhat like a hobbit engaging in riddles with you, but I risk little by this online search for truth:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>1) Change your hypo and assume that Bob issues code under the GPL, definitely not a "permissive license" by your meaning.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>2) through 5) identical. Same result?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Assume also the following details as sub-riddles:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>6) Alice's original proprietary program was written and Alice's copyright registered on it the year Linus Torvalds was born. Alice is replacing parts of that old proprietary anchor-ware with Bob's zipped-in program. Fortunately for Alice, she didn't need to change one bit of her old software or Bob's new software to make this improvement; it is as close to a plug-in as technology allows. Same result or must Alice disclose more of her source code or apply the GPL to her old proprietary code? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>7) Suppose Alice used special programming methods in her proprietary code to make it run only with the copy of Bob's software whose source code she has published. Any other version of Bob's software causes Alice's program to fail. Must she disclose her special programming methods that she calls her "DMCA shield"? Can Bob or Charlie just discover them for themselves by well-known reverse engineering techniques? Is there a DMCA expert in the house?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>8) Assume for another riddle how the situation would change if Alice *<b>didn't</b>* provide Charlie with a copy of Bob's GPL license and source code along with her proprietary software. And then, Charlie copied and distributed his proprietary version also without notices and copies of Bob's GPL license and source code. Obviously Bob has his own copyright infringement claims against both Alice and Charlie, but does Bob's GPL license protect any downstream third party beneficiaries of his code?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>/Larry<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>P.S. What better to do on a weekend than entertain your friends with riddles that may actually matter to them in their weekday jobs.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>P.P.S. I'm also going to try to get answers to these riddles from one or more of our speakers at this year's <i>PLI Open Source and Free Software 2014</i> program in San Francisco and on the web on December 10, 2014. A formal annoucement with the speaker list will be posted here soon, but you speakers know who you are so be prepared....<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Lawrence Rosen [mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com] <br>Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 12:53 PM<br>To: 'License submissions for OSI review'<br>Cc: Lawrence Rosen<br>Subject: RE: [License-review] Request for Approval of Universal Permissive License (UPL)</p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>John, my responses are inline. This has become a fun hypothetical for a Friday afternoon.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>/Larry<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>From: John Cowan [<a href="mailto:cowan@mercury.ccil.org"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>mailto:cowan@mercury.ccil.org</span></a>]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 12:34 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>To: Lawrence Rosen<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Cc: 'License submissions for OSI review'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [License-review] Request for Approval of Universal Permissive License (UPL)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Lawrence Rosen scripsit:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> And when her system administrator reports her to the FOSS police, or <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> more likely when Ameriprise sues her for some unrelated reason, we'll <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> see and hear about it. What then?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>We seem to be on different tracks. Here's the whole hypo:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>1) Bob issues code under a permissive license.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>[<LER>] Bless him.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>2) Alice takes that code and compiles it into her proprietary software, as she is well entitled to do, and distributes the binary version to Charlie and others.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>[<LER>] She better include appropriate notices and copies of the license and source code of Bob's software if Bob's license requires it. Charlie now knows (or is presumed to know) that he's entitled to Bob's code.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>3) Charlie extracts the binary bits corresponding to Bob's source code and reuses them in *his* proprietary software. Why he doesn't go straight to Bob's source, I don't know -- Charlies are odd creatures.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Perhaps he lives on Debian Island, where there is no Internet but CD-ROMs can be bought and sold via the annual ship.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>[<LER>] I don't understand Charlie's motivation either. Perhaps he didn't realize that Alice has a Help-About that explains exactly where to find all of Bob's source code without prying into her proprietary stuff. Furthermore, Charlie's lawyer probably didn't tell him that by doing so he is violating the DMCA and trade secret laws, and probably is in breach of the proprietary contract he negotiated with Alice.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>4) Alice sues Charlie for infringement of parts of her copyrighted software.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>[<LER>] I'm not sure if infringement is the proper cause of action, but she surely has some reason to complain. Charlie's a jerk!<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>5) Charlie's defense is that Alice's compiled code is just Bob's source code in a different medium, and he relies on Bob's license.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>[<LER>] Go to hell, Charlie. Go to SourceForge like Alice did and just as Alice's Help-About said you could.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>/Larry<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>