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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Patrice-Emmanuel Schmitz wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>If the license could be interesting for developers in Europe or if the license steward could propose it for software distribution trough the European Commissions' Joinup.eu platform (this may probably be applicable to most cases), there is currently one way for obtaining free legal suport: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It is great that people can get free legal advice in Europe to develop new open source licenses. I also agree with Richard Fontana that we don’t want to treat open source licensing like a game that only the rich and their lawyers can play.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>At this stage of our open source paradigm development, however, how many new wrinkles on license provisions are likely to matter? I hope that your group will only provide legal assistance (free or fee-based) to projects that can identify a clear rationale for a new license rather than simply a new way to say the same old things.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In my view, the wrinkles we might actually like in new licenses are those that solve patent problems, or apply in new ways to cloud-based or embedded or mobile software. We don’t need any more Apache or BSD licenses, do we, no matter how eloquently phrased? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I personally have been frustrated by writing licenses that don’t actually rock the world of software; how much more such frustration do license drafters and license reviewers need? This gets back to our old argument about license proliferation. Too many amateurs and their free lawyers writing new licenses will only exacerbate that problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And so, to quote Patrice-Emmanuel once again, this is the most important factor:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>- explanations on your licensing project, why you submit it, why no existing licenses does not fit...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>/Larry<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Patrice-Emmanuel Schmitz [mailto:pe.schmitz@googlemail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 08, 2013 7:02 AM<br><b>To:</b> license-review@opensource.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [License-review] License drafting quality and process [was Re: Comment on MOSL and similar licenses]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Richard Fontana dixit:</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>> ... access to good legal advice will be unrealistic to many developers, ...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>If the license could be interesting for developers in Europe or if the license steward could propose it for software distribution trough the European Commissions' Joinup.eu platform (this may probably be applicable to most cases), there is currently one way for obtaining free legal suport: <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Path:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>1. Visit the Joinup Open Source Software page <a href="https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/software/all" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/software/all</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>2. Hit the right button "Ask a legal question"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>3. Fill the form and select the category "Questions on legal issues"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Example:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#500050'>"I may propose the new license hereunder to Joinup Open Source developpers, do you have any legal comments on the draft and rationale prior submission to OSI?"</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>This is possible now, without formal guarantee of course (depending on workload).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>It is recommended to prepare two separate sections (to insert in the form or to provide on request to the Joinup team, if too long):<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>- the draft licence<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>- explanations on your licensing project, why you submit it, why no existing licenses does not fit...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>P-E.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>2013/4/8 Thorsten Glaser <<a href="mailto:tg@mirbsd.de" target="_blank">tg@mirbsd.de</a>><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Richard Fontana dixit:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>>agree. Certainly 'cut and paste isn't sufficient', but access to good<br>>legal advice will be unrealistic to many developers, and yet they seem<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>I had Till Jäger from the ifrOSS have a short look-over,<br>which he kindly made for free (though they normally focus<br>on copyleft licences). Probably better than nothing.<br><br>Might be a suggestion. If the prospective author has _some_<br>resources, maybe the ifrOSS would be happy to negotiate;<br>asking them probably isn’t bad.<br><br>On the other hand, I don’t know which legislations they<br>can operate in…<br><br>bye,<br>//mirabilos<br><span class=hoenzb><span style='color:#888888'>--</span></span><span style='color:#888888'><br><span class=hoenzb> "Using Lynx is like wearing a really good pair of shades: cuts out</span><br><span class=hoenzb> the glare and harmful UV (ultra-vanity), and you feel so-o-o COOL."</span><br><span class=hoenzb> -- Henry Nelson, March 1999</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>License-review mailing list<br><a href="mailto:License-review@opensource.org">License-review@opensource.org</a><br><a href="http://projects.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-review" target="_blank">http://projects.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-review</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <br>Patrice-Emmanuel Schmitz<br><a href="mailto:pe.schmitz@googlemail.com">pe.schmitz@googlemail.com</a><br>tel. + 32 478 50 40 65 <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>