<div dir="ltr">> any "more free" license is going to be at least walking the border of what's possible in a license.<font color="#888888"><br></font><div><br></div><div>But not necessarily a more formal contract.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Dec 3, 2025 at 4:19\u202fPM Josh Berkus <<a href="mailto:josh.berkus@opensource.org">josh.berkus@opensource.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 12/3/25 10:12 AM, Gil Yehuda wrote:<br>
> I believe AGPL failed to meet its original intent. I understand the <br>
> motivation on the part of the FSF folks to close the \u201cloophole" that <br>
> SaaS created given that software isn\u2019t distributed in cardboard boxes <br>
> with disks inside them. But when you look at much of the AGPL-licensed <br>
> software (I have not done the research to know if this is the majority, <br>
> or just the majority of the kinds of software I come across in my work), <br>
> AGPL isn\u2019t being used as much to promote the four software freedoms, <br>
> it\u2019s often used to leverage corporate users into a commercial licensing <br>
> deal. Moreover, that mechanism was not as effective as the vendors <br>
> wished for, which is why many opted for different licenses (Commons <br>
> Clause, BSL, SSPL, etc.)<br>
<br>
I take how things played out as an argument that AGPL *did* meet its <br>
goals of ensuring freedom for the public software that chose it (think <br>
CiviCRM). That companies tried to treat it as a commercial license and <br>
found it inadequate is a point in the AGPL's favor.<br>
<br>
However, I would say that any attempt to enforce software freedom beyond <br>
the limits of the AGPL is gonna require a lot of legal support. There's <br>
still folks who argue that AGPL went beyond the limits of copyright law <br>
enforceability, and any "more free" license is going to be at least <br>
walking the border of what's possible in a license.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
-- Josh Berkus<br>
OSI Board Member<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div><div><br clear="all"></div><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Bruce Perens K6BP</div></div></div></div>