<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p>Hi all,</p><p>I seem to have missed Brian's initial email and only just now caught up on this thread. I'm glad to see this discussion about OpenMDW was already underway.</p><p>Brian, you're right to highlight the due diligence clause. While it's part of the disclaimer section, it's a clause we don't often see. When I first looked at this license, this clause also concerned me the most. <br>However, I ultimately concluded that it likely wouldn't pose a problem for OSI approval, though I'm not sure how others will see it. <br>My understanding is that model providers cannot escape the mandatory laws of each country anyway, and for mere users of a model, the clause serves to warn them of the general precautions needed when using AI models.</p><p>Including my slight concerns about this due diligence clause, I've written an article that explains the Open Source nature of OpenMDW and addresses the following questions. <br>I would be grateful if you all could take a look:
<span class="gmail-"><span class="gmail-ng-star-inserted"><a target="_blank" rel="noopener" href="https://shujisado.org/2025/07/14/openmdw-license-review/" class="gmail-ng-star-inserted">https://shujisado.org/2025/07/14/openmdw-license-review/</a></span></span></p><p><span class="gmail-">- Is there any legal meaning in including trade secrets within the scope of the grant?<br>- Will there be any side effects from the scope of the patent clause extending to indirect infringement?<br>- Are there any issues with the clause that effectively forces due diligence for the model onto the user?<br>- Isn't it inferior to Creative Commons when used as a data license?<br>- Doesn't it have the potential to encourage openwashing?</span></p><p>Personally, I believe these issues stem from a lack of legal vetting that comes with OpenMDW's venture into a new domain. <br>If OpenMDW is formally submitted to the approval process, it will be a good opportunity for all of us to seriously consider licensing in the AI model domain.</p><p>Also, this is just my personal opinion, but I believe OpenMDW can be a useful license framework in specific cases, such as those involving scientific and technical data with patent risks, or where model parameters and data are interdependent to ensure reproducibility. While I expect the existing approach of separated licensing, like MIT/Apache-2.0 + CC, will remain the mainstream, I think OpenMDW can be a useful license option.</p></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">2025/7/18 6:07 Steve Winslow <<a href="mailto:swinslow@linuxfoundation.org">swinslow@linuxfoundation.org</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Hi Brian, thanks for raising this --
and Richard, thanks for flagging it for us. I'm responding on behalf of
the Linux Foundation as the OpenMDW license steward. I was involved along with
several other internal and external participants in drafting OpenMDW-1.0
and its earlier iterations.<br><br>We do intend to submit OpenMDW-1.0
to the license-review list to go through OSI's review process. We are
looking to be able to point to broader "use in the wild" before we do
so, in case that's helpful as context for the community during the
review. We're also aiming to be thoughtful about how this aligns with
OSD / OSAID as well as OSI's processes for reviewing AI-related licenses and distribution terms.<br><div><br></div><div>We'll
plan to follow up (likely in the near future) with an actual submission
of OpenMDW-1.0 for formal review by the community. </div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Steve</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 9:13\u202fPM Richard Fontana <<a href="mailto:fontana@sharpeleven.org" target="_blank">fontana@sharpeleven.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Copying Matt White and Steve Winslow, don't know if they are<br>
subscribed to this list.<br>
<br>
Richard<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jun 20, 2025 at 7:12\u202fPM Brian Behlendorf <<a href="mailto:brian@behlendorf.com" target="_blank">brian@behlendorf.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi all,<br>
><br>
> Asking about this here, rather than submitting to license-review, as I am<br>
> not the license steward, nor am I (any longer) involved in the Linux<br>
> Foundation.<br>
><br>
> About a month ago, the Linux Foundation released a license applicable to<br>
> LLM models called the OpenMDW License:<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://openmdw.ai/license/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://openmdw.ai/license/</a><br>
><br>
> The website describes this as an "open source" license, yet I see no<br>
> attempts (by reviewing the archives of license-discuss and license-review)<br>
> by the authors to bring this to OSI for formal approval. Does anyone see<br>
> anything in the license that would hinder such approval?<br>
><br>
> I'm personally unclear on the problem this solves. The purpose as stated<br>
> on the OpenMDW's FAQ reads a bit like "but it goes to 11". It seems like<br>
> one could have written a guide to distributing a model with existing<br>
> permissive licensing, as typically the purpose of the software is not<br>
> really relevant to its licensing.<br>
><br>
> It seems to be emphatic about things that don't need stating, like outputs<br>
> of the model aren't covered by the license - but nor are "outputs" of gcc<br>
> or LibreOffice.<br>
><br>
> It also doesn't require, as OSAID did, that the underlying data used to<br>
> train the model weights be published. This is "fine" from a<br>
> permissive-license POV - I imagine with some digging we can find<br>
> permissive-licensed-works that contain binary blobs, and we've long<br>
> accepted closed-source binary firmware updates as a part of the Linux<br>
> kernel project. So it's still unclear to me that weights couldn't just be<br>
> distributed under current permissive licenses.<br>
><br>
> The real stand-out portion for me, however, is the second-to-last<br>
> paragraph, disclaiming responsibility for any IP rights that may some day<br>
> be associated with the weights or other model materials, even if derived<br>
> from data not included in the distribution. While the courts have not<br>
> ruled decisively on this, you would not see AI companies signing deals<br>
> with content companies to scrape their data if there wasn't at least some<br>
> OIP risk involved in not doing so. It also seems to ignore that the global<br>
> policy train seem heading in the direction of limiting the ability to<br>
> disclaim liability in a software license, and that doesn't seem to have<br>
> changed under the current US administration. The disclaimer seems<br>
> extraneous, compared to current disclaimers in most permissive licenses.<br>
> Furthermore to the degree that people rely on that disclaimer, it seems<br>
> like it can create novel risks that OSS licenses are supposed to be<br>
> mitigating rather than adding to. This is because if presented with a<br>
> claim of infringement, there may be no way for the end-user or distributor<br>
> to quickly modify the model by modifying the training set and rebuilding.<br>
><br>
> But none of these concerns are really about potential violations of the<br>
> OSD.<br>
><br>
> Therefore, for the sake of clarity, if there isn't anything in this<br>
> license that clashes with the OSD, I humbly suggest it should be proposed<br>
> by the license steward and considered for approval. That way the use of<br>
> the term "open source" on the OpenMDW pages is legitimized, and the AI<br>
> community can be reassured that their "unique" needs are being met - even<br>
> if OpenMDW is duplicative of existing permissive licenses. Right now I<br>
> sense a schism emerging between generations that threatens to sideline OSI<br>
> in the minds of developers, and this could be an bridge between the two.<br>
><br>
> Thoughts?<br>
><br>
> Brian<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
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</blockquote></div><div><br clear="all"></div><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Shuji Sado</div><div>Chairman, Open Source Group Japan<br><a href="https://opensource.jp/" target="_blank">https://opensource.jp/</a></div><div><a href="https://shujisado.com/" target="_blank">https://shujisado.com/</a></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>