<div dir="auto"><div>Typefaces are not subject to copyright protection in the US, while they are in several jurisdictions, including Ireland. Is a typeface created in the United States protected by copyright law in Ireland when it's copied in Dublin?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I'm not sure what purpose 5(2) would accomplish if not apply domestic Irish law in this scenario. Is there another interpretation I'm missing?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Brendan</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 29, 2019, 19:24 Pamela Chestek <<a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
The Berne Convention also says in Article 7(8) that "unless the
legislation of that country otherwise provides, the term [of
protection] shall not exceed the term fixed in the country of origin
of the work."
<a class="m_-7014961507874292072m_-9193589180373578084moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/text.jsp?file_id=283698#P127_22000" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/text.jsp?file_id=283698#P127_22000</a>
The country of origin is the United States and the term, for
government works, is zero years. So unless legislation in a
different country provides otherwise, the term in a different
country shall not exceed that of the US, that is, it shall not
exceed zero.<br>
<br>
No one seems to argue this. Maybe the argument is that since it
isn't protected by copyright in the US at all there is no term, but
I haven't seen any explanation one way or another.<br>
<br>
Pam<br>
<br>
<div class="m_-7014961507874292072m_-9193589180373578084moz-signature">Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
PO Box 2492<br>
Raleigh, NC 27602<br>
919-800-8033<br>
<a class="m_-7014961507874292072m_-9193589180373578084moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<a class="m_-7014961507874292072m_-9193589180373578084moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.chesteklegal.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">www.chesteklegal.com</a><br>
</div>
<div class="m_-7014961507874292072m_-9193589180373578084moz-cite-prefix"><br>
On 5/29/2019 5:18 PM, Brendan Hickey wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Pam,</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I'm not sure that it would work this way. Per
Article 5(2) of the Berne Convention:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><span>(2) The
enjoyment and the exercise of these rights shall not be
subject to any formality; such enjoyment and such exercise </span><b>shall be
independent of the existence of protection in the country of
origin of the work.</b><span>
Consequently, apart from the provisions of this Convention,
the extent of protection, as well as the means of redress
afforded to the author to protect his rights, shall be
governed exclusively by the laws of the country where
protection is claimed.</span><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><a href="https://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/text.jsp?file_id=283698#P109_16834" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/text.jsp?file_id=283698#P109_16834</a></div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Brendan</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 29, 2019,
16:45 Pamela Chestek <<a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Wouldn't the
government's copyright interest outside of the US be
limited by the Rule of the Shorter Term under the Berne
Convention? And so where the term in the US is "zero,"
wouldn't it be zero in those countries that observe the
Rule of the Shorter Term?<br>
<br>
Pam<br>
<br>
<div class="m_-7014961507874292072m_-9193589180373578084m_8799505073407616026m_2098390250474098759moz-signature">Pamela
S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
PO Box 2492<br>
Raleigh, NC 27602<br>
919-800-8033<br>
<a class="m_-7014961507874292072m_-9193589180373578084m_8799505073407616026m_2098390250474098759moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<a class="m_-7014961507874292072m_-9193589180373578084m_8799505073407616026m_2098390250474098759moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.chesteklegal.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">www.chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="m_-7014961507874292072m_-9193589180373578084m_8799505073407616026m_2098390250474098759moz-cite-prefix">On
5/28/2019 9:34 PM, John Cowan wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 28,
2019 at 5:33 PM Christopher Sean Morrison via
License-discuss <<a href="mailto:license-discuss@lists.opensource.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">license-discuss@lists.opensource.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div>Yes! Even to say it’s in the public
domain is misleading. It’s not a USC
term.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's true that "public domain" is not
*defined* in 17 U.S.C., but it is *used* there
seven times. So turning to a dictionary, we
find this in the American Heritage Dictionary,
5th edition: "The condition of not being
protected by a patent or copyright and therefore
being available to the public for use without
charge", and this in Merriam Webster Online:
"[T]he realm embracing property rights that
belong to the community at large, are
unprotected by copyright or patent, and are
subject to appropriation by anyone[.]" So the
term is well-defined.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>Saying something from the Gov’t is
“public domain” typically just means it went
through a public release process and there's
no intention to assert rights.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>No, it means that there is no copyright
owner. 17 U.S.C. §105 says: "Copyright
protection under this title is not available for
any work of the United States Government, but
the United States Government is not precluded
from receiving and holding copyrights
transferred to it by assignment, bequest, or
otherwise." The term “work of the United States
Government” is defined as "[a] work prepared by
an officer or employee of the United States
Government as part of that person’s official
duties"</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>While works of Gov’t employees typically
don't have copyright protection under Title
17 and could easily be released "into the
public domain”, </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>They *are* in the public domain (unless they
were not part of the author's official duties).</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>that doesn’t mean they have to release
it, can release it,</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If by "release" you mean "publish", you are
of course right. But if by "release" you mean
"place in the public domain", you are wrong, as
shown above.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div> or that there aren’t other mechanisms
for releasing it NOT “into the public
domain.”</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are no such mechanisms. A copyrighted
work can have its copyright transferred, but a
work that is not in copyright (whether because
the copyright has been expired or forfeited, or
was expressly waived by the owner, or never
existed in the first place) cannot be removed
from the public domain except by Act of
Congress. This has happened several times in
the past, notably 1893 (restoring copyright
forfeited for lack of certain formalities if
reregistered), 1919, 1941 (for the benefit of
foreign authors whose copyrights expired during
the war, when they could not renew them), 1976
(extension to life+50), and 1989 (extension to
life+70), plus a number of private bills in the
19C for the benefit of specific authors.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>Gov’t regularly distributes software that
otherwise has *no* Title 17 protections to
foreign and domestic recipients, under
contractual terms.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So they may, but if the recipients transfer
the software to third parties, the recipients
are in breach but the third parties are not, for
lack of privity and because there is no in rem
right in the nature of copyright. Much the same
is true of classified materials (as opposed to
the U.K. where receiving and further
disseminating such materials is separately
criminalized.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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