<div dir="auto"><div>Typefaces are not subject to copyright protection in the US, while they are in several jurisdictions, including Ireland. Is a typeface created in the United States protected by copyright law in Ireland when it's copied in Dublin?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I'm not sure what purpose 5(2) would accomplish if not apply domestic Irish law in this scenario. Is there another interpretation I'm missing?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Brendan</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 29, 2019, 19:24 Pamela Chestek <<a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    The Berne Convention also says in Article 7(8) that "unless the
    legislation of that country otherwise provides, the term [of
    protection] shall not exceed the term fixed in the country of origin
    of the work."
    <a class="m_-7014961507874292072m_-9193589180373578084moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/text.jsp?file_id=283698#P127_22000" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/text.jsp?file_id=283698#P127_22000</a>
    The country of origin is the United States and the term, for
    government works, is zero years. So unless legislation in a
    different country provides otherwise, the term in a different
    country shall not exceed that of the US, that is, it shall not
    exceed zero.<br>
    <br>
    No one seems to argue this. Maybe the argument is that since it
    isn't protected by copyright in the US at all there is no term, but
    I haven't seen any explanation one way or another.<br>
    <br>
    Pam<br>
    <br>
    <div class="m_-7014961507874292072m_-9193589180373578084moz-signature">Pamela S. Chestek<br>
      Chestek Legal<br>
      PO Box 2492<br>
      Raleigh, NC 27602<br>
      919-800-8033<br>
      <a class="m_-7014961507874292072m_-9193589180373578084moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
      <a class="m_-7014961507874292072m_-9193589180373578084moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.chesteklegal.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">www.chesteklegal.com</a><br>
    </div>
    <div class="m_-7014961507874292072m_-9193589180373578084moz-cite-prefix"><br>
      On 5/29/2019 5:18 PM, Brendan Hickey wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      <div dir="auto">
        <div>Pam,</div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">I'm not sure that it would work this way. Per
          Article 5(2) of the Berne Convention:</div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto"><span>(2) The
            enjoyment and the exercise of these rights shall not be
            subject to any formality; such enjoyment and such exercise </span><b>shall be
            independent of the existence of protection in the country of
            origin of the work.</b><span>
            Consequently, apart from the provisions of this Convention,
            the extent of protection, as well as the means of redress
            afforded to the author to protect his rights, shall be
            governed exclusively by the laws of the country where
            protection is claimed.</span><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto"><a href="https://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/text.jsp?file_id=283698#P109_16834" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/text.jsp?file_id=283698#P109_16834</a></div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">Brendan</div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
          <div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 29, 2019,
              16:45 Pamela Chestek <<a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a>>
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Wouldn't the
                government's copyright interest outside of the US be
                limited by the Rule of the Shorter Term under the Berne
                Convention? And so where the term in the US is "zero,"
                wouldn't it be zero in those countries that observe the
                Rule of the Shorter Term?<br>
                <br>
                Pam<br>
                <br>
                <div class="m_-7014961507874292072m_-9193589180373578084m_8799505073407616026m_2098390250474098759moz-signature">Pamela
                  S. Chestek<br>
                  Chestek Legal<br>
                  PO Box 2492<br>
                  Raleigh, NC 27602<br>
                  919-800-8033<br>
                  <a class="m_-7014961507874292072m_-9193589180373578084m_8799505073407616026m_2098390250474098759moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
                  <a class="m_-7014961507874292072m_-9193589180373578084m_8799505073407616026m_2098390250474098759moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.chesteklegal.com" rel="noreferrer
                    noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">www.chesteklegal.com</a><br>
                  <br>
                </div>
                <div class="m_-7014961507874292072m_-9193589180373578084m_8799505073407616026m_2098390250474098759moz-cite-prefix">On
                  5/28/2019 9:34 PM, John Cowan wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div dir="ltr"><br>
                    </div>
                    <br>
                    <div class="gmail_quote">
                      <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 28,
                        2019 at 5:33 PM Christopher Sean Morrison via
                        License-discuss <<a href="mailto:license-discuss@lists.opensource.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">license-discuss@lists.opensource.org</a>>
                        wrote:<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <div>Yes!  Even to say it’s in the public
                              domain is misleading.  It’s not a USC
                              term.</div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>It's true that "public domain" is not
                        *defined* in 17 U.S.C., but it is *used* there
                        seven times.  So turning to a dictionary, we
                        find this in the American Heritage Dictionary,
                        5th edition: "The condition of not being
                        protected by a patent or copyright and therefore
                        being available to the public for use without
                        charge", and this in Merriam Webster Online:
                        "[T]he realm embracing property rights that
                        belong to the community at large, are
                        unprotected by copyright or patent, and are
                        subject to appropriation by anyone[.]"  So the
                        term is well-defined.</div>
                      <div> </div>
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                        <div>
                          <div>Saying something from the Gov’t is
                            “public domain” typically just means it went
                            through a public release process and there's
                            no intention to assert rights.</div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>No, it means that there is no copyright
                        owner.  17 U.S.C.  §105 says: "Copyright
                        protection under this title is not available for
                        any work of the United States Government, but
                        the United States Government is not precluded
                        from receiving and holding copyrights
                        transferred to it by assignment, bequest, or
                        otherwise."  The term “work of the United States
                        Government” is defined as "[a] work prepared by
                        an officer or employee of the United States
                        Government as part of that person’s official
                        duties"</div>
                      <div> </div>
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                        <div>
                          <div>While works of Gov’t employees typically
                            don't have copyright protection under Title
                            17 and could easily be released "into the
                            public domain”,  </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>They *are* in the public domain (unless they
                        were not part of the author's official duties).</div>
                      <div> </div>
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                        <div>
                          <div>that doesn’t mean they have to release
                            it, can release it,</div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>If by "release" you mean "publish", you are
                        of course right.   But if by "release" you mean
                        "place in the public domain", you are wrong, as
                        shown above.</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                        <div>
                          <div> or that there aren’t other mechanisms
                            for releasing it NOT “into the public
                            domain.”</div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>There are no such mechanisms.  A copyrighted
                        work can have its copyright transferred, but a
                        work that is not in copyright (whether because
                        the copyright has been expired or forfeited, or
                        was expressly waived by the owner, or never
                        existed in the first place) cannot be removed
                        from the public domain except by Act of
                        Congress.  This has happened several times in
                        the past, notably 1893 (restoring copyright
                        forfeited for lack of certain formalities if
                        reregistered), 1919, 1941 (for the benefit of
                        foreign authors whose copyrights expired during
                        the war, when they could not renew them), 1976
                        (extension to life+50), and 1989 (extension to
                        life+70), plus a number of private bills in the
                        19C for the benefit of specific authors.</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                        <div>
                          <div>Gov’t regularly distributes software that
                            otherwise has *no* Title 17 protections to
                            foreign and domestic recipients, under
                            contractual terms.</div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>So they may, but if the recipients transfer
                        the software to third parties, the recipients
                        are in breach but the third parties are not, for
                        lack of privity and because there is no in rem
                        right in the nature of copyright.  Much the same
                        is true of classified materials (as opposed to
                        the U.K. where receiving and further
                        disseminating such materials is separately
                        criminalized.</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
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</pre>
                </blockquote>
                <br>
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            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div>

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</blockquote></div></div></div>