<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi McCoy,</div><div><br></div><div>I very much hope that the Supreme Court grants cert in Oracle v. Google and reverses - in fact I am writing an amicus to that effect right now. But given where we are and the odds that the Supreme Court take *any* particular case, I am right now planning that it is at least somewhat likely that SSO/APIs will be copyrightable and protectable in the future. Based on that evaluation, I have to think about how to use it to accomplish my client's purposes.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I don't define "interface" or API in particular. Instead, I looked to the public performance right as it currently exists relative to music or movies. There is a distinct right controlled by the songwriter to have the performance made available in a non-private fashion. This right is effective even if there is a new recording of a work (analogous to a "new implementation" in software), if that work takes a copyrightable element from the original.</div><div><br></div><div>As I currently have it drafted, it is as follows:</div><div><br></div><div>
“Public Performance” (or “Publicly Performing”) means making aspects of
the Software, including any interfaces used for access to or
manipulation of User Data, directly or indirectly available to the
public. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Thus it is directly analogous to the AGPL network interaction clause, but I think better in line with copyright.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,<br></div><div>Van<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:09 PM Smith, McCoy <<a href="mailto:mccoy.smith@intel.com">mccoy.smith@intel.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Given where we currently are in the Google/Oracle case, I’m curious how you define API (or if you define it at all).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Would it require copylefting code that implements an API that is non-copyrightable, or implements an API when such implementation would be fair use?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Anyway, I’ll be at CopyleftCon so maybe I can just ask these questions after your presentation. Sounds like maybe you’re going to address current state of the
law and how you think that can allow copyleft to expand.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_7622997730858139584__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_7622997730858139584______replyseparator"></a><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> License-discuss [mailto:<a href="mailto:license-discuss-bounces@lists.opensource.org" target="_blank">license-discuss-bounces@lists.opensource.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bruce Perens<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 31, 2019 9:52 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:license-discuss@lists.opensource.org" target="_blank">license-discuss@lists.opensource.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [License-discuss] Developing a new open source license<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">Van,<br>
<br>
With all respect and understanding of the motivations of the group behind this, I have a really big problem with this part:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-left:30pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">Unlike other current open source licenses, the Autonomous Agent License will require software that implements a compatible API or publicly performs the API to also be open source.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am the standards chair of the Open Source Initiative. <b>If the provision you propose in this license was used by standards associations, they could trivially prohibit Open Source implementations of their standard APIs.</b> This is obviously
something that OSI would have to fight in court.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thus, it's a really, really bad idea for OSI to stand for such a provision by approving a license containing it.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Also, almost trivially compared to the above issue, this obviously violates OSD #9.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">So, unfortunately I really have to recommend in the strongest way that a license incorporating that term not be approved.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> Sorry<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> Bruce<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 9:17 AM VanL <<a href="mailto:van.lindberg@gmail.com" target="_blank">van.lindberg@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hello all,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I have been retained to help develop a new, strong copyleft open source license for a client, Holo Ltd. We have been going back and forth internally for a little while and we will shortly be putting out a draft for public comment. After
the public comment period, we will be submitting the license to the OSI for certification.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I will also be discussing this license in my presentation at CopyleftConf on Monday.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In the meantime, some of the underlying reasoning for why we need a different open source license is being presented on Holo's blog. The first post is up now, and the second will be up in a couple days:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://medium.com/h-o-l-o/why-we-need-a-new-open-source-license-c8faf8a8dadd" target="_blank">https://medium.com/h-o-l-o/why-we-need-a-new-open-source-license-c8faf8a8dadd</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Comments are welcome.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Van<u></u><u></u></p>
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