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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Scott Peterson wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>> </span><span style='color:black'>“Intimate” is the most useful term we know to describe the kind of convoluted interaction and deep knowledge that suggests that one part is specifically designed to require another part.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>What is the relevance of "convoluted interaction" and "deep knowledge," and why should open source licenses care about independent implementations regardless of their design for utility? The attempt of the GPLv3 committee to create the term "corresponding source" to identify nothing specific (except perhaps "intimacy") was the worst mistake of GPLv3 drafting. "Intimate" means "a very close friend." Where is that concept in copyright law? When used in AGPL, it scares all the big companies away! I don't blame them.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>/Larry<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b>From:</b> License-discuss <license-discuss-bounces@lists.opensource.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott Peterson<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 14, 2019 7:31 AM<br><b>To:</b> Gil Yehuda <gyehuda@oath.com><br><b>Cc:</b> license-discuss@lists.opensource.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [License-discuss] Intimacy in open source<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:43 AM Gil Yehuda via License-discuss <<a href="mailto:license-discuss@lists.opensource.org">license-discuss@lists.opensource.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>First time posting to this group. I hope the subject line got you to read further. I'm not asking for legal advise, but posing a question about a phrase used in AGPL/GPL v3.0 and hoping to get insight on how to interpret it properly. The phrase is "intimate data communication" as found here:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-left:30.0pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:12.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>For example, Corresponding Source includes interface definition files associated with source files for the work, and the source code for shared libraries and dynamically linked subprograms that the work is specifically designed to require, <b>such as by intimate data communication </b>or control flow between those subprograms and other parts of the work.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>When I read this, I interpret <i>intimate data communication</i> as the relationship between a database driver and a database. That's the role of a driver -- to have intimate communications with the DB so that your calling application can bind to the driver, not the DB. I'm asking this group: is my interpretation sound? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='color:black'>In case you have not already looked at these, here are two references you might consider:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='color:black'>Rationale documents that were published as a part of development of GPLv3. In particular, see footnote 21 in the third rationale document:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='color:black'>21 We have made minor clarifications to this definition. Our restoration of “intimate” in place of the Draft 2 substitution “complex” followed from further public discussion of the Corresponding Source definition, in which it became clear that “complex” in the context of data communication suggested interpretations quite different from what we had intended.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='color:black'>“Intimate” is the most useful term we know to describe the kind of convoluted interaction and deep knowledge that suggests that one part is specifically designed to require another part.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><a href="http://gplv3.fsf.org/gpl3-dd3-rationale.pdf">http://gplv3.fsf.org/gpl3-dd3-rationale.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='color:black'>GPL FAQs published by the FSF. In particular:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><a href="https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#MereAggregation">https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#MereAggregation</a><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><a href="https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#GPLPlugins">https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#GPLPlugins</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='color:black'>-- Scott</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='color:black'>Scott K Peterson</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='color:black'>Senior Commercial Counsel</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='color:black'>Red Hat, Inc.</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>