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<p class="MsoNormal">Larry,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If there is non-monetary consideration present in open source licenses then then “without payment of royalties or other consideration” would exclude most, if not nearly all, OSI approved licenses using your definition.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The part of the definition we all would likely agree with would be “without payment of royalties”. How much “other consideration” is too much seems to be subject to debate. “BY” seems safe. “SA” seems safe. SSPL? Not so much.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Some forms of consideration is okay, even good. Others become overreach.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Have a Happy New Year!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nigel<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">License-discuss <license-discuss-bounces@lists.opensource.org> on behalf of "lrosen@rosenlaw.com" <lrosen@rosenlaw.com><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"lrosen@rosenlaw.com" <lrosen@rosenlaw.com>, "license-discuss@lists.opensource.org" <license-discuss@lists.opensource.org><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, December 28, 2018 at 12:04 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>"license-discuss@lists.opensource.org" <license-discuss@lists.opensource.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [License-discuss] Proposed license decision process<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText">Regarding "consideration":<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><b>The sharing of open source software among users worldwide is consideration enough for all of us to enforce our licenses!</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Bruce Perens is right. Please comment on THAT. Kevin and Florian worry too much about simple concepts about "consideration" in U.S. and U.K. law.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">/Larry<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b>From:</b> License-discuss <license-discuss-bounces@lists.opensource.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bruce Perens<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 28, 2018 8:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> license-discuss@lists.opensource.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [License-discuss] Proposed license decision process<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">We went over this in Jacobsen v. Katzer. I testified (and the court agreed) that there _was_ consideration in Open Source licenses, although it was non-monetary.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> Bruce<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 4:39 AM Kevin P. Fleming <<a href="mailto:kevin%2Bosi@km6g.us">kevin+osi@km6g.us</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">One of my colleagues (who strongly prefers public domain dedications<br>
and permissive licenses) recently indicated to me that in his opinion<br>
as a software author, the obligation to distribute source code<br>
qualified as 'consideration', since it requires a tangible (to some<br>
degree) action on the part of the licensee. I had never thought about<br>
it this way, but I can definitely see how someone could arrive at that<br>
conclusion, and this seems to align with Florian's concern.<br>
<br>
On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM Florian Weimer <<a href="mailto:fw@deneb.enyo.de" target="_blank">fw@deneb.enyo.de</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> * Lawrence Rosen:<br>
><br>
> > But let us nevertheless agree on a pragmatic definition of "open<br>
> > source software".<br>
><br>
> > “Open source software” means software actually distributed under terms<br>
> > that grant a copyright and patent license from all contributors to the<br>
> > software for every licensee to access and use the complete source<br>
> > code, make copies of the software or derivative works thereof and,<br>
> > without payment of royalties or other consideration, to distribute the<br>
> > unmodified or modified software.<br>
><br>
> I think “consideration” is a bad word, it's difficult to understand<br>
> for those of us who were not brought up in the English legal<br>
> tradition.<br>
><br>
> I'd be worried that “no other consideration” would exclude copyleft<br>
> licenses, or more broadly speaking, licenses that use copyright as a<br>
> tool to get the licensee to perform any additional action that is not<br>
> inherently tied to exploitation of the copyright itself.<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> License-discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:License-discuss@lists.opensource.org" target="_blank">License-discuss@lists.opensource.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.opensource.org/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss_lists.opensource.org" target="_blank">
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