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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Bruce Perens wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>> </span>There is no problem if it's a request rather than a requirement. One can hope that scientific ethics applies....<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Bruce, I think you go too far. A request to be ethical isn't enough. It is, however, reasonable to demand this:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Licensee must display the name and source of the embedded software <i>in as prominent a manner and place</i> as the licensee displays its own trademarks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>If the licensee doesn't like that <u>license requirement</u>, it won't get a license to the software. That is no more onerous than copyleft. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Our job is to approve licenses that experiment successfully (?) with new license models, not to keep rejecting ways to obtain profit and recognition from software. Let us leave it up to the marketplace to determine acceptability of the license, as long as it is "open source software."<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>/Larry<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b>From:</b> License-discuss <license-discuss-bounces@lists.opensource.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bruce Perens<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 4, 2018 12:34 PM<br><b>To:</b> license-discuss@lists.opensource.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [License-discuss] Open source license with obligation to display an attribution?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>There is no problem if it's a request rather than a requirement. One can hope that scientific ethics applies to the kind of folks who make SAAS out of your software.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> Thanks<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> Bruce<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 11:54 AM <<a href="mailto:Simon.Cox@csiro.au">Simon.Cox@csiro.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>[Apologies - I subscribed in digest mode so my response to your initial comments was not threaded, and this won't be either - fixed now.] <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I guess what we are after is what you have referred to as a 'gesture'. Probably shouldn't have used the term 'obligation' in the subject line - I've been looking at the ODRL model, so am used to thinking in terms of permissions/restrictions/obligations. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I'm fully aware that - as with pretty much all IP law - enforcement is up to us, so there is always a scalability challenge. But mention within a license at least provides a starting point. In my initial post it appeared that I was jumping to a solution prior to laying out the requirement, so I attempted to clarify the use-case in a follow-up message. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>What would make our bosses happy (and thus willing to continue to support our contributions) would be: where a site uses our product as the primary basis for a publicly-available service, that a gesture of acknowledgment is publicly-visible. In non-legal English something like "if you use this software as the primary basis for a service with a publicly visible UI, even if under a new skin, whatever, then please acknowledge us on or around your landing page. Our preference would be that you display [this logo] with a link to [our webpage]". <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>A standard-ish formulation would be nice. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id="m_7517090265911626216Signature"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in;background:white'><a name="m_7517090265911626216__MailAutoSig"><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#00A9CE'>Simon J D Cox</span></b></a><span style='mso-bookmark:m_7517090265911626216__MailAutoSig'><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Minion Pro";color:#00A9CE'><br></span></b></span><span style='mso-bookmark:m_7517090265911626216__MailAutoSig'></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Research Scientist<br><a href="http://www.csiro.au/Organisation-Structure/Flagships/Land-and-Water" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#999999'>Land and Water</span></a></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>CSIRO</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#00A9CE'>E</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> <a href="mailto:simon.cox@csiro.au">simon.cox@csiro.au</a> </span><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#00A9CE'>T</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> +61 3 9545 2365 </span><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#00A9CE'>M</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> +61 403 302 672</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Minion Pro";color:black'><br></span><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#999999'> Physical: </span></i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#999999'>Reception<i> </i>Central,<i> </i>Bayview Avenue, Clayton, Vic 3168<br><i> Deliveries: </i>Gate 3, Normanby Road, Clayton, Vic 3168<br> <i>Postal:</i> Private Bag 10, Clayton South, Vic 3169<br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue'><a href="http://people.csiro.au/C/S/Simon-Cox" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:9.0pt'>people.csiro.au/C/S/Simon-Cox</span></a><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><a href="http://orcid.org/0000-0002-3884-3420" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:9.0pt'>orcid.org/0000-0002-3884-3420</span></a></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Simon_Cox3" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>researchgate.net/profile/Simon_Cox3</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>_______________________________________________<br>License-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:License-discuss@lists.opensource.org" target="_blank">License-discuss@lists.opensource.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.opensource.org/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss_lists.opensource.org" target="_blank">http://lists.opensource.org/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss_lists.opensource.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></body></html>