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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Nigel Tseng wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>So is that legal advice from you via the internet? To just go for it? Awesome!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Of course not, unless I send you a bill and you pay it! Privately, that would be awesome but I won't charge you for my free "informed" opinions over the Internet. Other lawyers may be scared to speak up, but I'm a flying livestock. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>More important, I'm willing to engage in a serious conversation about "patent rights and the OSD" if there are any other brave attorneys here willing to speak up without sending everyone a bill.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> /Larry<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b>From:</b> Tzeng, Nigel H. [mailto:Nigel.Tzeng@jhuapl.edu] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 8, 2017 12:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> lrosen@rosenlaw.com; license-discuss@opensource.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Larry, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>I read it and even with some vague knowledge of the domain I don't think I can answer... <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>So is that legal advice from you via the internet? To just go for it? Awesome!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Hey look...flying livestock! :)<br><br>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Nigel<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:5.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Lawrence Rosen <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Date: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Wednesday, Mar 08, 2017, 3:08 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>To: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><a href="mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org">license-discuss@opensource.org</a> <<a href="mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org">license-discuss@opensource.org</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Cc: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Lawrence Rosen <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Subject: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:1.0in'>Nigel Tzeng wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:1.0in'>> Using US7460689B1 System and method of detecting, recognizing, and tracking moving targets as an example it could be useful to have an open source copyright license to any USG developed MTI implementation of US7460689B1 because the libraries and functions used to implement the patent could be reusable. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>Nigel, I am avoiding reading that patent because I have no time, but since you did read it I can ask you some questions:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>Is the patent already "reusable" for things other than "detecting, recognizing, and tracking moving targets"? What is the relationship between "libraries and functions used to implement the patent" and all those <u>different uses</u> of the patent claims than are disclosed in US7460689B1? Are those copyrighted "libraries and functions" themselves patented claims in US7460689B1? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>Without such a patent analysis – that no open source engineer is required to undertake prior to an infringement notice from the patent owner – I'm comfortable recommending that we implement such open source software. The hell with random patents tossed out by Nigel Tzeng to scare me. :-) <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>/Larry<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>"If this had been legal advice it would have been accompanied by a bill."<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>-----Original Message-----<br>From: License-discuss [<a href="mailto:license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org">mailto:license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org</a>] On Behalf Of Tzeng, Nigel H.<br>Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 7:18 AM<br>To: <a href="mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org">license-discuss@opensource.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>Cem,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>To give them a more concrete example (hopefully not a flawed one <span style='font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif'>☺</span>) I skimmed ARLs patent portfolio. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>Using US7460689B1 System and method of detecting, recognizing, and tracking moving targets as an example it could be useful to have an open source copyright license to any USG developed MTI implementation of US7460689B1 because the libraries and functions used to implement the patent could be reusable. While a lot of the basic functions may exist today in GDL or SciPy the underlying image processing, change map creation, math, etc may have been reusable outside of the context of US7460689B1 and of greater interest to the software community when most of those capabilities were only widely available in systems like Matlab or IDL. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>Even more so the software components required to interface with Army systems that would have to be built around any operational MTI system. Getting access to source code from another government agency/DoD program isn’t always as painless as one might expect.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>While these could be broken out and individually open sourced it is an additional burden on the Army/DoD Program and it simply may not get done. It would be far easier for the program to open source the entire system with the note that US7460689B1 and others apply to these 4 subsystems and care must be applied to any reuse of those components.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>I’m also curious of their opinion on the impact of the policy to give away all software patents to Executive Order 10096 and the intent that individual government researchers have the opportunity to benefit from their inventions. Is there reason that software inventors should have less financial opportunity than hardware inventors?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>What safeguards exist or will exist for the USG inventor that an unrelated ARL or DoD project will not open source code that unknowingly implements their patent and provide a free patent grant? What happens to the entity that may have contracted for an exclusive patent license agreement for that patent through their technology transfer office? Will the office responsible for approving ARL open source releases with patent grants be able to review source code applicability to not just ARL patents but those from the NRL or DOE?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>There is a reason I favor the patent grant language in the Educational Community License v2.0 for GOSS and large research organizations.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>Nigel<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>ObDis: Not speaking for the lab.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>On 3/8/17, 9:36 AM, "License-discuss on behalf of Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)" <<a href="mailto:license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org%20on%20behalf%20of%20cem.f.karan.civ@mail.mil"><span style='color:black;text-decoration:none'>license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org on behalf of cem.f.karan.civ@mail.mil</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> I can pass it through ARL's lawyers, as well as pass it to the code.gov <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> people.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> Cem Karan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > From: License-discuss [<a href="mailto:license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org"><span style='color:black;text-decoration:none'>mailto:license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org</span></a>] On <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > Behalf Of Stephen Kellat<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 10:41 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > To: <a href="mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org"><span style='color:black;text-decoration:none'>license-discuss@opensource.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > OSD<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > All active links contained in this email were disabled. Please verify the <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > identity of the sender, and confirm the authenticity of all links<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > contained within the message prior to copying and pasting the address to a <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > Web browser.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > ----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > On Mar 7, 2017, at 10:08 PM, Tzeng, Nigel H. <<a href="mailto:Nigel.Tzeng@jhuapl.edu"><span style='color:black;text-decoration:none'>Nigel.Tzeng@jhuapl.edu</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > > You know the more I think about this, the disclaimer of patent rights in <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > > CC0 is probably best for GOSS because it avoids the attempt for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > a one size fit all patent grant language among different agencies with <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > different policies and the complexity under which patent rights are<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > awarded to whom under the Bayh-Dole Act and Executive Order 10096.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > > Employees of federal agencies, especially research oriented ones, have <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > > some financial interest and rights under 10096.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > > Likewise non-profits and small businesses under Bayh-Dole.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > > IMHO patent grant language in FOSS licenses provide a false sense of <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > > security.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > > I would rather the government open source as much as possible regardless <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > > of patent rights as long as any known patents are disclosed.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > As seen in Ximpleware v Versata the patents typically only cover a small <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > portion of the overall system (VTD-XML). While it is relevant from<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > the perspective of being able to use the system as built it is less relevant <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > from a code reuse perspective.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > > For large government systems significant software components could often <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > > be reused without the specific portions covered under<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > patent.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > > So just having a copyright license to the entire project would provide <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > > significant value to the community. There is code I wrote 30 years<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > ago I'd love to get access to again even if I couldn't use the rest of the <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > system.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > > _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > > License-discuss mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > > <a href="mailto:License-discuss@opensource.org"><span style='color:black;text-decoration:none'>License-discuss@opensource.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > > Caution-https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > After a less than fabulous day at work for IRS dealing with my tiny corner <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > of tax law as well as my accounts work, I am tempted after<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > reading this. Perhaps this could be used as well as the rest of this thread <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > as pre-decisional input to open a tight Inquiry in the Federal<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > Register. That's the first step we can take to move into building a formal <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > record for a body of law. Alternatively getting something<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > chartered under the Federal Advisory Committees Act might help move this <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > forward.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > I think the debate has dragged on a bit for more than a few months. Moving <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > to where desirable federal policy/policies are adopted is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > probably doable. Could we narrow this down to 3 or fewer courses of action <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > that might be explored by ARL counsel in an inquiry notice?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > Even if list participants are the only people that respond to a notice in <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > the Federal Register we're still building a useful record for later use<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > such as Federal Acquisition Rules changes, for example.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > Depending upon what shows up in the President's budget set to drop Monday, I <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > either will have a lot of time on my hands coming up or<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > an ICTAP certificate plus lots of time on my hands. I want to see Federal <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > OSS policy evolve. We have laid the groundwork here but need<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > to get it in the official record soon.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > Stephen Michael Kellat<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > GS-0962-07/1<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > These views are solely my own and not those of the US Government. Rank, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > position, grade, and bureau are cited for identification<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > purposes only.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > License-discuss mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > <a href="mailto:License-discuss@opensource.org"><span style='color:black;text-decoration:none'>License-discuss@opensource.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> > Caution-https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>License-discuss mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="mailto:License-discuss@opensource.org"><span style='color:black;text-decoration:none'>License-discuss@opensource.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss"><span style='color:black;text-decoration:none'>https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>