<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">We do agree for the most part, but not entirely here. I was more looking back to Cem’s original question about whether CC0 would ensure their projects are Open Source today, which it would not, in the absence of action on CC0 that would not be unanimously supported to say the least. My take is that they could better attend to this problem right now by choosing any existing OSI license, preferably one with a clear patent license, and if Cem is looking to ensure that their projects are Open Source in the immediate term, this is a path that requires nothing of the rest of us and little to nothing of them either IMHO. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Of course my view is obviously colored by my take that CC0 is *not* a good model for open source and that it would have been a bad thing for it to have been approved - a license that specifically reserves rights of the author to pursue infringement claims against users is not a license we want to encourage the use of, by the government or anyone else...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> Best,</div><div class=""> Jim<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 1, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Lawrence Rosen <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com" class="">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)" class=""><style class=""><!--
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" class=""><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><a name="_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt" class="">Jim Wright wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></a></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt" class="">> </span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose" class="">Something is certainly better than nothing, I agree, but ...</span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></span></p><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt" class=""> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt" class="">Jim, I'm on your side on this. :-) I'm hoping that a U.S. government open source policy, someday published in the Federal Register and bearing the force of law, will also include an express patent pledge that we can all rely on. Copyright isn't enough. Maybe even UPL?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt" class=""> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt" class="">Such a pledge could become a model for other large patent-holding institutions, such as universities, to give open source users reassurance that they are not patent infringers.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt" class=""> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt" class="">That's a bigger topic than for here. It is largely up to that public Federal Register process that eventually may ensue. It has nothing to do with OSI's approval of CC0. This WE can do now on our own on behalf of government open source. <o:p class=""></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt" class=""> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt" class="">/Larry<o:p class=""></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt" class=""> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt" class=""> </span></span></div><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose" class=""></span><div class=""><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b class="">From:</b> Jim Wright [<a href="mailto:jim.wright@oracle.com" class="">mailto:jim.wright@oracle.com</a>] <br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 1, 2017 2:59 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> <a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com" class="">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>; <a href="mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org" class="">license-discuss@opensource.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [License-discuss] Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Something is certainly better than nothing, I agree, but I think many of us would rather have an express and broad license from all participants in a project, including the government, than to have to rely on less than well understood public domain dedications and waivers of patent rights that do not apply to all participants. Something closer to symmetry and broad coverage should be achievable here IMHO - the perfect may sometimes be the enemy of the good, but in this case, we can, I think, do better than CC0. YMMV of course.<span style="font-size:12.0pt" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> Best,<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> Jim<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">On Mar 1, 2017, at 2:01 PM, Lawrence Rosen <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com" class="">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class="" type="cite"><div class=""><p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:1.0in">Jim Wright wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:1.0in">> it seems odd to me to require a dedication to the public domain in any event - stuff is either in the public domain by law or isn’t, and to whatever extent it isn’t, we should have a copyright license, full stop. Similarly as to patents, I don’t want to have to look at some ostensible policy on waiving patent rights, we should all have a clearly scoped patent license for the project, government and private contributors alike, and there is an easy vehicle to achieve this, use an OSI approved license. <o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">Jim, regardless of which OSI-approved license(s) the U.S. government chooses for its distributed software, neither the "public domain" question nor the "patent license" question will EVER be fully answered for any particular software simply by reading those licenses. You have to look at the software itself. Of course, we could all sue each other and let the courts decide....<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">I'll be grateful for a published government policy – perhaps posted in the Federal Register someday – that reassures us of a commitment by government agencies to open source using <u class="">any</u> OSI-approved license.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">Including CC0.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">/Larry<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class="" type="cite"><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">License-discuss mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:License-discuss@opensource.org" class="">License-discuss@opensource.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss" class="">https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">License-discuss mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:License-discuss@opensource.org" class="">License-discuss@opensource.org</a><br class="">https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></body></html>