<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#0563C1;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#954F72;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black;}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
span.PlainTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Plain Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text";
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;
text-decoration:none none;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;
text-decoration:none none;}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;
text-decoration:none none;}
span.EmailStyle23
{mso-style-type:personal-compose;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;
text-decoration:none none;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Jim Wright wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>> </span></span><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'>in the absence of action on CC0 that would not be unanimously supported to say the least</span><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>I know that is true but I don't know what it means for this license-discuss@ list. I haven't personally voted on a license in years.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>According to several government folks here, government departments and others are already using CC0 for software. Profusely. Please don't blame me; neither Creative Commons nor I ever recommended CC0 for software. But that happened, because of those <u>damned software patents</u> that interfered with normal open source licensing by government departments and universities.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>TO ANYONE AT OSI WHO ACTUALLY VOTES: Please vote to list CC0 as an OSI-approved open source license. Even Jim Wright said, and he's right, "Something is certainly better than nothing, I agree...." Deal with patents separately.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>/Larry<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'></span><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b>From:</b> Jim Wright [mailto:jim.wright@oracle.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 1, 2017 4:19 PM<br><b>To:</b> license-discuss@opensource.org<br><b>Cc:</b> Larry Rosen <lrosen@rosenlaw.com>; cem.f.karan.civ@mail.mil<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [License-discuss] Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>We do agree for the most part, but not entirely here. I was more looking back to Cem’s original question about whether CC0 would ensure their projects are Open Source today, which it would not, in the absence of action on CC0 that would not be unanimously supported to say the least. My take is that they could better attend to this problem right now by choosing any existing OSI license, preferably one with a clear patent license, and if Cem is looking to ensure that their projects are Open Source in the immediate term, this is a path that requires nothing of the rest of us and little to nothing of them either IMHO. <span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Of course my view is obviously colored by my take that CC0 is *not* a good model for open source and that it would have been a bad thing for it to have been approved - a license that specifically reserves rights of the author to pursue infringement claims against users is not a license we want to encourage the use of, by the government or anyone else...<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> Best,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> Jim<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>On Mar 1, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Lawrence Rosen <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Jim Wright wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>> </span>Something is certainly better than nothing, I agree, but ...<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Jim, I'm on your side on this. :-) I'm hoping that a U.S. government open source policy, someday published in the Federal Register and bearing the force of law, will also include an express patent pledge that we can all rely on. Copyright isn't enough. Maybe even UPL?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Such a pledge could become a model for other large patent-holding institutions, such as universities, to give open source users reassurance that they are not patent infringers.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>That's a bigger topic than for here. It is largely up to that public Federal Register process that eventually may ensue. It has nothing to do with OSI's approval of CC0. This WE can do now on our own on behalf of government open source. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>/Larry</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><b>From:</b> Jim Wright [<a href="mailto:jim.wright@oracle.com">mailto:jim.wright@oracle.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 1, 2017 2:59 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>; <a href="mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org">license-discuss@opensource.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [License-discuss] Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'>Something is certainly better than nothing, I agree, but I think many of us would rather have an express and broad license from all participants in a project, including the government, than to have to rely on less than well understood public domain dedications and waivers of patent rights that do not apply to all participants. Something closer to symmetry and broad coverage should be achievable here IMHO - the perfect may sometimes be the enemy of the good, but in this case, we can, I think, do better than CC0. YMMV of course.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'> Best,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'> Jim<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:1.0in'>On Mar 1, 2017, at 2:01 PM, Lawrence Rosen <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:1.5in'>Jim Wright wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:1.5in'>> it seems odd to me to require a dedication to the public domain in any event - stuff is either in the public domain by law or isn’t, and to whatever extent it isn’t, we should have a copyright license, full stop. Similarly as to patents, I don’t want to have to look at some ostensible policy on waiving patent rights, we should all have a clearly scoped patent license for the project, government and private contributors alike, and there is an easy vehicle to achieve this, use an OSI approved license. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:1.0in'>Jim, regardless of which OSI-approved license(s) the U.S. government chooses for its distributed software, neither the "public domain" question nor the "patent license" question will EVER be fully answered for any particular software simply by reading those licenses. You have to look at the software itself. Of course, we could all sue each other and let the courts decide....<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:1.0in'>I'll be grateful for a published government policy – perhaps posted in the Federal Register someday – that reassures us of a commitment by government agencies to open source using <u>any</u> OSI-approved license.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:1.0in'>Including CC0.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:1.0in'>/Larry<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>_______________________________________________<br>License-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:License-discuss@opensource.org">License-discuss@opensource.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss">https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>_______________________________________________<br>License-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:License-discuss@opensource.org">License-discuss@opensource.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss">https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></body></html>