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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Henrik Ingo wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>MIT is on record as saying that the MIT license, which is otherwise equivalent to the 2-clause BSD license, does *not* grant a patent license.<span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I also would like to see a reference to that written statement. But I believe it to be true only if it means:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>. . . does *<b>not</b>* grant *<b>an additional</b>* patent license. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>The patent right to *<b>use</b>* that legally acquired software is an implied patent grant for all software licensed in ordinary commerce, but this does not necessarily include a patent license for derivative works or other unintended uses.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>It has long been believed by many of us that universities, research institutions, and other large patent holders are quite comfortable with the short BSD and MIT licenses because they are safe copyright-only licenses. Those licenses <u>do not implicate their vast patent portfolios</u> for derivative works or other uses. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Is that on record by them? Or simply assumed by those of us who believe that <u>implicit and unwritten</u> patent promises don't exist (except for the right to <u>use that software unmodified</u>). Can I really take any of MIT's patents now implemented in MIT-licensed open source software and create derivative works involving those (or related) MIT patents?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Quite frankly, I believe the Apache and MPL licenses are much better. They do contain written patent promises, and so are safer and explicitly more generous. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>The BSD and MIT licenses are okay if all you really care about are copyrights.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>/Larry<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Simon Phipps<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 12, 2016 9:19 AM<br><b>To:</b> license-discuss@opensource.org<br><b>Cc:</b> henrik.ingo@avoinelama.fi<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [License-discuss] Views on React licensing?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 5:05 PM, John Cowan <<a href="mailto:cowan@ccil.org" target="_blank">cowan@ccil.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 5:44 AM, Henrik Ingo <<a href="mailto:henrik.ingo@avoinelama.fi" target="_blank">henrik.ingo@avoinelama.fi</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div id="m_-6766451225987171241gmail-:2ca"><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Many people, including significant producers of BSD software, believe<br>that the BSD license is also a patent license.<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>MIT is on record as saying that the MIT license, which is otherwise equivalent to the 2-clause BSD license, does *not* grant a patent license.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Do you have a citation to support that please? A quick web search did not identify one, but obviously it's a big web out there.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>S.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>