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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thank you for the link below that I had searched without success.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Moreover this discussion helped me better understand the terminology (still lightly ambiguous, but after all it’s the problem with natural language,
no ? ;-))<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I see that it can become very tricky with some licences and particular technologies..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I think the best is to start with licences that are clearly permissive for our situation, and have our legal department keep an eye on that. They’ll
decide what to do for other situations more subtle.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#03365F">Best regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#03365F"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#03365F">Etienne<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org]
<b>De la part de</b> Radcliffe, Mark<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> mardi 29 novembre 2016 19:36<br>
<b>À :</b> license-discuss@opensource.org<br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [License-discuss] Using opensource in a company not in the software business<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">And being compliant is the right thing to do.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> License-discuss [<a href="mailto:license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org">mailto:license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ben Tilly<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 29, 2016 10:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> License Discuss<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [License-discuss] Using opensource in a company not in the software business<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">If you host the software on a server and they hit that API, this does not count as distribution. But there are licenses, such as the AGPL, that will still cause you problems there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The exact definition of when linking creates a derivative work has not to my non-lawyerly knowledge been litigated. Many lawyers think that the GPL FAQ is overly optimistic about how much power the license will have
if litigated. On the other hand staying within its suggestions greatly limits the odds of problems down the road.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">In general each open source license aims to allay some fear that the author of the software had. Some, like the MIT and Apache licenses, protect the authors and otherwise make it easy to use the code as you see fit.
Others, like the GPL, avoid having someone build something cool on your software while refusing to let you see/build on that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">It is likely easiest for you to start with
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Comparison-5Fof-5Ffree-5Fand-5Fopen-2Dsource-5Fsoftware-5Flicenses-23FOSS-5Flicenses&d=CwMGaQ&c=3wvJ0zJmnOH4EwE3NZ_dojrpL7MAvp0sk6CwidQglYA&r=jdsm-qkq-Mk027Redh3Cbs2iQvbzFXesOa4hf4yZVks&m=TCa2aR4yZuooZ9ly4VCCQamoHgdZUjTkxjRXc5AWU0I&s=7hP38b5LRT5dyIs80y8_uKD1W7fMJ3ZompMtamxH024&e=">
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_free_and_open-source_software_licenses#FOSS_licenses</a>, decide where your comfort level is, and try to only use software on one side of that. That's a lot easier than staying careful about exactly how you use each
piece of software.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Alternately you can decide that you are not in the software business after all, give away all distributed software with source, and charge for access to a service that you maintain. (And avoid the AGPL!)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:27 AM, FREJAVILLE Etienne <<a href="mailto:etienne.frejaville@coface.com" target="_blank">etienne.frejaville@coface.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hello,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thank you for the answers. It seems that we are concerned even though we don't sell
the software provided to the customer.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Apparently, the fact that the customer uses the software from the outside of the company
counts as a 'distribution'.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I may submit that topic to our lawyers, but before I have more precise questions related,
concerning particular uses of licences, to be sure I understand them correctly.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">And I agree not to trust 'as is' answers from a mailing list, but it's a good start!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It seems that Apache, BSD, MIT... licences do not cause particular problems in our context
(and in general).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Concerning GPL, I have found in the GPL's FAQ that:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">"The community expects that all code linked to GPL code will be licensed under the GPL,
even if the link is made at runtime using a shared library"</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Does it means that in that case we should release publicly under the GPL licence any
of our source code that use the open source libraries ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If true, does indirect usages are also concerned ? Libraries that call libraries that
call open source libraries will also have to be licenced under the GPL licence ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Concerning LGPL, knowing that the user cannot modify our code as it's proprietary, I
understand that using Java libraries for example is not possible as he must be able to</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">(§ 4 of the LGPL V3 : ) "... recombine or relink the Application with a modified version
of the Linked Version to produce a modified Combined Work".</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">But using Opensource javascript LGPL library without providing source code should be
possible if I understand well.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Indeed, if the code using the opensource uses it as a reference to a library on a distant
domain, the user can get the benefits of the latest version of the library used by our code if he wants.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">E.g , if displaydate.js is an open source library released under the LPGP licence, in
our code:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><script src="displaydate.js" type="text/javascript"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"></script></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">would be an incorrect usage, whereas:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><script src="<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.yahoo.com_displaydate.js&d=CwMGaQ&c=3wvJ0zJmnOH4EwE3NZ_dojrpL7MAvp0sk6CwidQglYA&r=jdsm-qkq-Mk027Redh3Cbs2iQvbzFXesOa4hf4yZVks&m=TCa2aR4yZuooZ9ly4VCCQamoHgdZUjTkxjRXc5AWU0I&s=OvmN-UgJQOG7J5wcI3Ps85Du8qUqD1FT08vQ7dFsd-8&e=" target="_blank">http://www.yahoo.com/displaydate.js</a>"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"></script></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">would be a correct usage.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Is it correct ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thank you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#03365F">Cordialement, Best regards.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#03365F"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#03365F">Etienne</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#03365F"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> License-discuss [mailto:<a href="mailto:license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org" target="_blank">license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org</a>]
<b>De la part de</b> Radcliffe, Mark<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> lundi 28 novembre 2016 22:55<br>
<b>À :</b> <a href="mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org" target="_blank">license-discuss@opensource.org</a><br>
<b>Cc :</b> <a href="mailto:cooi@theiet.org" target="_blank">cooi@theiet.org</a><br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [License-discuss] Using opensource in a company not in the software business</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I agree with Ben. Lawyers with open source experience will dramatically decrease your
costs. You should also consider consulting Heather Meeker’s book: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_Open-2DSource-2DBusiness-2DPractical-2DLicensing_dp_1511617772_ref-3Dsr-5F1-5F1-3Fie-3DUTF8-26qid-3D1480369990-26sr-3D8-2D1-26keywords-3Dopen-26-2343-3Bsource-26-2343-3Bfor-26-2343-3Bbusiness-26-2343-3Bmeeker&d=CwMGaQ&c=3wvJ0zJmnOH4EwE3NZ_dojrpL7MAvp0sk6CwidQglYA&r=jdsm-qkq-Mk027Redh3Cbs2iQvbzFXesOa4hf4yZVks&m=TCa2aR4yZuooZ9ly4VCCQamoHgdZUjTkxjRXc5AWU0I&s=zrUEvmKneAfJOhfNJUDJC7abUwC3nR1MdWZm0CyITHY&e=" target="_blank">
https://www.amazon.com/Open-Source-Business-Practical-Licensing/dp/1511617772/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1480369990&sr=8-1&keywords=open+source+for+business+meeker</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> License-discuss
[<a href="mailto:license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org" target="_blank">mailto:license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ben Tilly<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 28, 2016 11:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> License Discuss<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:cooi@theiet.org" target="_blank">cooi@theiet.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [License-discuss] Using opensource in a company not in the software business</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Nigel's list is biased towards paranoia. Paranoia is a healthy default But it is OK, for example, to ship useful standalone GPL tools to customers in a zip
file that happens to also contain proprietary code of yours that does not use those tools.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">As always, if in doubt you should consult a lawyer and the license. And don't rely on opinions from a mailing list.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">One final note, I would recommend that it may be worth your while to find a lawyer with open source experience, and not just familiarity with intellectual property.
Open source licenses are somewhat unusual, and there are common misunderstandings around, for instance, how the GPL works that a general lawyer is likely to spend time working through the first time. (Is this a contract? Does it apply if it is not a contract?)
While lawyers are generally happy to research things on your dime, this is not always an efficient use of your money...</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 9:29 AM, Tzeng, Nigel H. <<a href="mailto:Nigel.Tzeng@jhuapl.edu" target="_blank">Nigel.Tzeng@jhuapl.edu</a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Cindy advice is best but the quick and dirty answer for you given the two things you stated:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">
<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">We do not modify or enhance the open source code of the used libraries.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">
<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">At last, our code must be kept as proprietary and we don’t consider providing the source code using the opens source libraries.</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Good: Apache, BSD, MIT and other permissively licensed open source code. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Maybe Good: LGPL, MPL and weak copyleft licensed open source code.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Not Good: GPL and any strong copyleft licensed open source code.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Review your code base and anything that used GPL source code in an Android/iOS app or
Windows/MacOS/Linux program is an issue. On your internal server if you used any AGPL code it may be an issue.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Your normal lawyer should be able to find you an IP lawyer but you might as well start
going over your code base.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Nigel</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:
</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">License-discuss <<a href="mailto:license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org" target="_blank">license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org</a>> on behalf of Cinly Ooi
<<a href="mailto:cinly.ooi@gmail.com" target="_blank">cinly.ooi@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"<a href="mailto:cooi@theiet.org" target="_blank">cooi@theiet.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:cooi@theiet.org" target="_blank">cooi@theiet.org</a>>, License Discuss <<a href="mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org" target="_blank">license-discuss@opensource.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, November 28, 2016 at 7:51 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>License Discuss <<a href="mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org" target="_blank">license-discuss@opensource.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [License-discuss] Using opensource in a company not in the software business</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">You _are_ in the software business.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">The correct person to evaluate your case is your lawyer.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">As Woolley said, regardless of which the license of the software you choose uses, you still
have responsibility under open source license, and your customers have expectations as provided for by the license.
<br>
<br>
It is the same whether it is open source license or close source license</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Your lawyer will look at each license you need to use and apply it to see whether it meets
your business objective.<br>
<br>
Another good place to start is to see is there any local people who can talk you through it for the price of a coffee. However, your lawyer has the final say.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><br clear="all">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Best Regards,<br>
Cinly<br>
<br>
*****<br>
“There should not be an over-emphasis on what computers tell you, because they only tell you what you tell them to tell you,” -- Joe Sutter, Boeing 747 Chief Engineer.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">On 28 November 2016 at 10:23, FREJAVILLE Etienne <<a href="mailto:etienne.frejaville@coface.com" target="_blank">etienne.frejaville@coface.com</a>>
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Hello,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">I'm sorry for asking a question that has probably been answered in the past, but I couldn't find a clear and precise answer on the subject
on your website or any web resource.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">We are a private company and we wonder how to deal with developments using open source.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">First of all we are not a software company, and therefore we just provide software applications to our customers, so that they can use our
services/buy our products.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">We develop with code that may use opensource, both:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">- 1. Pure internal software</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">- 2. Software for our customers provided as Web applications (that obviously interacts with a part of our internal software).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">- 3. Software for our customers provided as mobile applications (IOS&Android apps) that interacts with a part of our internal software.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">The usage we make of opensource, is either use the opensource products as standalone products (e.g Maven, Kados..), or use them ‘as is’ as
libraries (most java or javascript) (e.g POI, jQuery...).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">We do not modify or enhance the open source code of the used libraries.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">At last, our code must be kept as proprietary and we don’t consider providing the source code using the opens source libraries.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">I have read quite a few pages on the
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__opensource.org&d=CwMGaQ&c=3wvJ0zJmnOH4EwE3NZ_dojrpL7MAvp0sk6CwidQglYA&r=jdsm-qkq-Mk027Redh3Cbs2iQvbzFXesOa4hf4yZVks&m=mb6Xv_IQ0-9vyxXoreSfoPx986ZZ17jIvvSEeZzr_m0&s=cW_7dVP6ausJzvov6lbFHOGhMdXgxspnB24JX4mlUFU&e=" target="_blank">
opensource.org</a> website, the FAQ and other external papers, but it seems that the licences discussions and restrictions, concern most of the time the usage of the open source in commercial products, or concern the distribution of open sources modifications.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">First of all, I would like to know if a software provided to our customers in our case, is considered in the open source terminology as a
'customer product'.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Second, I would like to understand what 'distribution' stands for. Is distributing a web application or mobile application considered 'distribution'
?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">We provide some binary code that may contain usages of open source libraries, to some of our subsidiaries. Is it also considered as 'distribution'
?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">The idea behind these questions is to know if in fact we have to care about using Open source software or not in our situation..</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">If indeed we provide a commercial product and we are considering distributing software that may require the usage of opensource libraries
for being able to work, indeed, I guess we are concerned by Open source usage.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">If it's the case, I will have more precise questions regarding the usage we make of these libraries, to understand what licences we may use
and what we may not.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Thank you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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Le groupe Coface, un leader mondial de l'assurance-crédit, propose aux entreprises du monde entier des solutions pour les protéger contre le risque de défaillance financière de leurs clients. Ses 4 400 collaborateurs assurent un service de proximité dans 67
pays.<br>
<br>
The Coface Group, a worldwide leader in credit insurance, offers companies around the globe solutions to protect them against the risk of financial default of their clients. 4 400 staff in 67 countries provide a local service worldwide.
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Le groupe Coface, un leader mondial de l'assurance-crédit, propose aux entreprises du monde entier des solutions pour les protéger contre le risque de défaillance financière de leurs clients. Ses 4 400 collaborateurs assurent un service de proximité dans 67 pays.<BR>
<BR>
The Coface Group, a worldwide leader in credit insurance, offers companies around the globe solutions to protect them against the risk of financial default of their clients. 4 400 staff in 67 countries provide a local service worldwide. <BR>
<BR>
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