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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I agree with Ben. Lawyers with open source experience will dramatically decrease your costs. You should also consider consulting Heather Meeker’s book: https://www.amazon.com/Open-Source-Business-Practical-Licensing/dp/1511617772/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1480369990&sr=8-1&keywords=open+source+for+business+meeker<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ben Tilly<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 28, 2016 11:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> License Discuss<br>
<b>Cc:</b> cooi@theiet.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [License-discuss] Using opensource in a company not in the software business<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Nigel's list is biased towards paranoia. Paranoia is a healthy default But it is OK, for example, to ship useful standalone GPL tools to customers in a zip file that happens to also contain proprietary code of yours that does not use
those tools.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">As always, if in doubt you should consult a lawyer and the license. And don't rely on opinions from a mailing list.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">One final note, I would recommend that it may be worth your while to find a lawyer with open source experience, and not just familiarity with intellectual property. Open source licenses are somewhat unusual, and there are common misunderstandings
around, for instance, how the GPL works that a general lawyer is likely to spend time working through the first time. (Is this a contract? Does it apply if it is not a contract?) While lawyers are generally happy to research things on your dime, this is
not always an efficient use of your money...<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 9:29 AM, Tzeng, Nigel H. <<a href="mailto:Nigel.Tzeng@jhuapl.edu" target="_blank">Nigel.Tzeng@jhuapl.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Cindy advice is best but the quick and dirty answer for you given the two things you stated:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard","serif"">We do not modify or enhance the open source code of the used libraries.</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard","serif"">At last, our code must be kept as proprietary and we don’t consider providing the source code using the opens source libraries.</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Good: Apache, BSD, MIT and other permissively licensed open source code. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Maybe Good: LGPL, MPL and weak copyleft licensed open source code.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Not Good: GPL and any strong copyleft licensed open source code.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Review your code base and anything that used GPL source code in an Android/iOS app or Windows/MacOS/Linux program is an issue. On your internal server if you
used any AGPL code it may be an issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Your normal lawyer should be able to find you an IP lawyer but you might as well start going over your code base.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Nigel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">License-discuss <<a href="mailto:license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org" target="_blank">license-discuss-bounces@opensource.org</a>> on behalf of Cinly Ooi <<a href="mailto:cinly.ooi@gmail.com" target="_blank">cinly.ooi@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"<a href="mailto:cooi@theiet.org" target="_blank">cooi@theiet.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:cooi@theiet.org" target="_blank">cooi@theiet.org</a>>, License Discuss <<a href="mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org" target="_blank">license-discuss@opensource.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, November 28, 2016 at 7:51 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>License Discuss <<a href="mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org" target="_blank">license-discuss@opensource.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [License-discuss] Using opensource in a company not in the software business<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">You _are_ in the software business.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">The correct person to evaluate your case is your lawyer.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">As Woolley said, regardless of which the license of the software you choose uses, you still have responsibility under open source
license, and your customers have expectations as provided for by the license. <br>
<br>
It is the same whether it is open source license or close source license<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Your lawyer will look at each license you need to use and apply it to see whether it meets your business objective.<br>
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Another good place to start is to see is there any local people who can talk you through it for the price of a coffee. However, your lawyer has the final say.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Best Regards,<br>
Cinly<br>
<br>
*****<br>
“There should not be an over-emphasis on what computers tell you, because they only tell you what you tell them to tell you,” -- Joe Sutter, Boeing 747 Chief Engineer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">On 28 November 2016 at 10:23, FREJAVILLE Etienne <<a href="mailto:etienne.frejaville@coface.com" target="_blank">etienne.frejaville@coface.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Hello,</span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">I'm sorry for asking a question that has probably been answered in the past, but I couldn't find a clear and precise answer on the subject
on your website or any web resource.</span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">We are a private company and we wonder how to deal with developments using open source.</span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">First of all we are not a software company, and therefore we just provide software applications to our customers, so that they can use our
services/buy our products.</span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">We develop with code that may use opensource, both:</span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">- 1. Pure internal software</span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">- 2. Software for our customers provided as Web applications (that obviously interacts with a part of our internal software).</span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">- 3. Software for our customers provided as mobile applications (IOS&Android apps) that interacts with a part of our internal software.</span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">The usage we make of opensource, is either use the opensource products as standalone products (e.g Maven, Kados..), or use them ‘as is’ as
libraries (most java or javascript) (e.g POI, jQuery...).</span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">We do not modify or enhance the open source code of the used libraries.</span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">At last, our code must be kept as proprietary and we don’t consider providing the source code using the opens source libraries.</span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">I have read quite a few pages on the
<a href="http://opensource.org" target="_blank">opensource.org</a> website, the FAQ and other external papers, but it seems that the licences discussions and restrictions, concern most of the time the usage of the open source in commercial products, or concern
the distribution of open sources modifications.</span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">First of all, I would like to know if a software provided to our customers in our case, is considered in the open source terminology as a
'customer product'.</span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Second, I would like to understand what 'distribution' stands for. Is distributing a web application or mobile application considered 'distribution'
?</span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">We provide some binary code that may contain usages of open source libraries, to some of our subsidiaries. Is it also considered as 'distribution'
?</span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">The idea behind these questions is to know if in fact we have to care about using Open source software or not in our situation..</span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">If indeed we provide a commercial product and we are considering distributing software that may require the usage of opensource libraries
for being able to work, indeed, I guess we are concerned by Open source usage.</span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">If it's the case, I will have more precise questions regarding the usage we make of these libraries, to understand what licences we may use
and what we may not.</span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="FR" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR" style="color:black">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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