<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Hey many thanks Max,<br>
<br>
This is all really helpful - as you can imagine I'm trying to
understand this as fully as I can...<br>
<br>
Over on my Reddit post (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://redd.it/39gpcy">http://redd.it/39gpcy</a>) there's a reply that
as Rapid is a server platform it doesn't get distributed like a
typical desktop application so GPLv3 doesn't apply, and AGPLv3
should be used instead. Giving AGPL a quick read this makes sense to
me, but not having heard of it before I wondered whether AGPL was
sound and/or a better choice?<br>
<br>
The Open Office document is a good example: I write an essay in Open
Office and is the essay Open Source? Of course not, the words in the
text are all my own. However the font is not, and, erm, neither are
the other "building blocks" which Open Office is using to show me my
essay. The essay can exist entirely independently of Open Office,
and I can do things like print it, and still have what makes my
essay, my essay, and retain it after it's creation without any
further requirement for Open Office.<br>
<br>
And this is where Rapid apps get tricky. The debate (I think) is can
a Rapid app exist, like my essay, independently of the Rapid
platform used to make it? (like FileZilla can exist outside of the
mysys compiler) And the answer is, no it can't. What users generate
with Rapid are just definition files of properties and what Rapid
controls (html snippets) are on pages and what Rapid actions
(JavaScript and pre-compiled server-side code) get called when. The
app has to constantly refer back to the platform resources to
generate the pages and execute the actions. I assume this is
linking, or even derivation? Is it enough to ensure Rapid apps are
Open Source?<br>
<br>
Not that ensuring Rapid apps are Open Source is necessarily the end
goal - I just need to be sure if it's yay or nay.<br>
<div class="moz-signature"><br>
Isn't software interesting?<br>
<br>
Thanks for your time and help so far.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Gareth<br>
<br>
<br>
<p style="margin:0"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family:
Arial,sans-serif;">Gareth Edwards</span></p>
<p style="margin:0"><b><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;
font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">Rapid Information Systems
Ltd.</span></b><b><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;
font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></span></b></p>
<p style="margin:0"><b><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;
font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.rapid-is.co.uk">http://www.rapid-is.co.uk</a></span></b></p>
<p style="margin:0"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family:
Arial,sans-serif;"><a
href="mailto:gareth.edwards@rapid-is.co.uk" onclick="return
rcmail.command('compose','gareth.edwards@rapid-is.co.uk',this)"><span
style="color: blue;">gareth.edwards@rapid-is.co.uk</span></a></span></p>
<p style="margin:0"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family:
Arial,sans-serif;">Office : 02081239508 </span></p>
<p style="margin:0"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family:
Arial,sans-serif;">Mobile : 07818830430</span></p>
<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/06/15 19:36, Maximilian wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:5579D510.8040400@actoflaw.co.uk" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/06/2015 12:33, Gareth Edwards
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:5578209A.3010707@rapid-is.co.uk" type="cite">The
big thing everyone wants to know (and no-one seems to be able to
answer), is are the apps made with Rapid also Open Source, i.e.
are app creators obliged to share the code and files for apps
they've made using Rapid with the rest of the Rapid community? </blockquote>
<br>
Hello,<br>
<br>
This post might seem a bit long - I'm just throwing a few ideas up
into the air here with the usual disclaimers and hoping others
will comment and correct me where I'm wrong. <br>
<br>
I had a quick look at Rapid - sounds interesting and something
that I would certainly find useful for, ahem, <i>rapid</i>
development and prototyping and for building admin interfaces for
backends :)<br>
<br>
To answer your question in brief - not typically.<br>
<br>
There would be two ways of looking at the question of whether the
"apps made wth Rapid [are] also Open Source":<br>
1. the licensing terms of Rapid require app developers to
release any applications created with it under a specified licence
(e.g. GPLv3); or<br>
2. apps built on Rapid are derivative works of Rapid itself and
therefore remain within the GPLv3<br>
<br>
Regarding point one, the GPLv3 doesn't allow for this. If it did,
for example, documents made with LibreOffice would themselves be
licensed under the GPLv3. Technically I think it would be possible
for such a licence to still be compatible with the Open Source
Definition, although I can't name a licence like that off the top
of my head.<br>
<br>
With respect to point two, you'd need to show that the apps built
using Rapid are actually derived works. From the viewpoint of the
Free Software Foundation, they would probably see that as the apps
are completely dependent on Rapid, perhaps moreso than a software
library, the apps would therefore form "derivative works" and be
licensed under the GPL. I don't know how successful that argument
would be in court, and especially here as the apps are not seen as
modifications or improvements to Rapid but instead apps in their
own right which are merely interpreted by/linked to Rapid. <br>
<br>
Another thing to note is that the GPL only really takes effect on
distribution or propagation of software. Therefore, even if apps
were somehow required to be licensed under the GPLv3 or were
otherwise considered derivative works, app creators wouldn't
actually be obliged to share the code and files with others where
they were merely developing the apps for their own use. It's only
where the developer wants to give (or make available) the app to
other people/entities where that developer would be required to
release the source code for that app.<br>
<br>
<br>
TL;DR - if you really want to make sure that the apps created with
Rapid are themselves open source then you'd probably want some
form of custom OSD-compatible software licence.<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Max<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>