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<div>Larry,</div>
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<div>We’re not afraid of GPL and use it where applicable. The “where applicable” part is the issue. Same with “ALL other" OSI-approved licenses since each package would have to be reviewed as to whether it would be okay.</div>
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<div>Whereas Apache is currently just ALv2 or ALv2 + some permissive license with a attribution clause. It is easy for a Project Manager or Legal to say “if it’s from Apache it’s okay to use”. It’s a known quantity and you can trust the brand. Muddy the
waters and this is no longer true and a huge step backwards.</div>
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<div>Show me the case law to prove what you term aggregation is not what the FSF calls derivative and provide indemnification against copyright infringement if it isn’t aggregation. </div>
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<div>THEN the concerns are mitigated. Otherwise inclusion of any copyleft licensed code in Apache projects is a huge issue for users.</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Lawrence Rosen <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>Lawrence Rosen <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>>, License Discuss <<a href="mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org">license-discuss@opensource.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 2:17 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>License Discuss <<a href="mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org">license-discuss@opensource.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [License-discuss] Proposal: Apache Third Party License Policy<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Nigel, your answer echoes many others:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">> </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">If I have to start checking every Apache package for GPL code I’ll have to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">> strongly recommend that we approach all Apache packages with caution.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">If we amended the proposal to leave out the GPL licenses, would that calm your concerns?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I'd really hate to do that at Apache for that set of generous FOSS licenses, but fear is fear.... Apache didn't cause this fear of "infection" and Apache can't cure it. There is a group of attorneys that is
drafting an appropriate "exception" that would allow at least some GPL software to be aggregated with Apache software.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">But are ALL other OSI-approved licenses OK with you?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">/Larry<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b>From:</b> Tzeng, Nigel H. [<a href="mailto:Nigel.Tzeng@jhuapl.edu">mailto:Nigel.Tzeng@jhuapl.edu</a>]
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<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 27, 2015 9:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:members@apache.org">members@apache.org</a>; <a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com">
lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>; 'License Discuss'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [License-discuss] Proposal: Apache Third Party License Policy<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Thanks, without the context it was somewhat harder to follow on license-discuss.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Consider this a vote in the negative as a non-member user of Apache software. If I have to start checking every Apache package for GPL code I’ll have to strongly recommend
that we approach all Apache packages with caution.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Becoming a “universal acceptor” significantly impacts your ability to be a “universal donor”. I have no desire to accidentally be the cause of any organization I work
for becoming the test case for what is an aggregation vs what is a derivative. If Apache was willing to indemnify downstream users…yah, I didn’t think so.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Nice try though.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="color:black">"<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"<a href="mailto:members@apache.org">members@apache.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:members@apache.org">members@apache.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>>,
License Discuss <<a href="mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org">license-discuss@opensource.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 10:16 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>License Discuss <<a href="mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org">license-discuss@opensource.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[License-discuss] Proposal: Apache Third Party License Policy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">[This has been a hellishly long thread on private Apache lists before the board cut off discussion on revised policies. Below was the short start of it I submitted over
two weeks ago. Apache board members don't want to revise current policy. Many Apache members don't want it. Still, it is a serious proposal to bring some more freedom and cooperation to open source. Please treat this as a political document for license-discuss@.
/Larry]</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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