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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Elsewhere on internal Apache member email lists we've been discussing a patent that may or may not apply to Apache software. I already quoted publicly the strongly-held opinion of one Apache member that "this patent is just plain BS, IMHO." He may be right.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>My concern is that Apache members are not qualified to make this determination about any patent. Nor is the Apache Software Foundation resourced to do that analysis professionally for our users. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>However, I believe that ASF is obligated to disclose whatever patent information comes to our developers' and members' attention. This is one of the key purposes of a NOTICE file in open source software.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Others disagree strongly. Here is what Roy Fielding wrote on a public Apache list on 27 Mar 2012: <a href="http://s.apache.org/B3F">http://s.apache.org/B3F</a>. I quote part of it now:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>It has been discussed. This </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>idea is the moral equivalent of pointing a gun<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>at our user while saying that it is most likely unloaded. It simply isn't done.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Adobe has not asked for it to be done. The only company that has ever asked<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>for it to be done is Sun, and we not only refused to do so -- we exited the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>entire Java community process because of it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>So, the answer to your suggestion is well known. Sam knows that answer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>He does not need to discuss it with you or anyone else because there is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>already a long history behind it and a board precedence. We do not notify<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>our users that an unspecified patent might possibly be owned by some<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>third-party based on a theoretical reading of a patent license on a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>specification that we don't even implement. If that third-party identifies<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>a specific patent AND indicates that the patent might apply to our product,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>then we would include information about that in a README file (assuming<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>we didn't kill the product outri</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>ght).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>As a non-patent but practicing attorney, I don't believe I'd ever personally recommend that we kill an international Apache project outright simply because someone pointed a US patent gun at it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On the other hand, we have a NOTICE file and we owe our customers whatever the facts are.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I'm looking for agreement by Apache customers to this NOTICE policy in a <u>very</u> antagonistic, patent-hating and unfriendly Apache community that takes such discussions personally, like religion.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>/Larry<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>