<div dir="ltr"><div>Regarding the abusive moderator, it's all about trust. I trust the ones in here.<br><br></div>Regarding privacy, it's like signing don't lock your doors because burglars can find their way in anyway if they really want to.<br>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 9:18 PM, Rick Moen - <a href="mailto:rick@linuxmafia.com">rick@linuxmafia.com</a> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:+opensource+nwo+3ec0e2f50b.rick#linuxmafia.com@spamgourmet.com" target="_blank">+opensource+nwo+3ec0e2f50b.rick#linuxmafia.com@spamgourmet.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="im">Quoting Lior W. (opensource.*.<a href="mailto:nwo@neverbox.com">nwo@neverbox.com</a>):<br>
<br>
> Interesting. I did notice it's hard to conduct serious discussions in<br>
> forums, but it's harder to find mailing lists for a given subject.<br>
<br>
</div>As Garbo's 'Ninotchka' phrased it, 'Fewer but better.' ;-><br>
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
> Anyway, I can't really counter your statements except:<br>
> 1) Doesn't the ability to not be notified about each and every topic<br>
> worth the troubles?<br>
<br>
</div>Obviously a matter of perception and opinion. I find my own local<br>
filtering and scoring of incoming SMTP mail to meet my needs in that<br>
regard. FWIW, newsgroup forums are now unfashionable but offer many<br>
advantages in these and similar areas. (BTW, a cynic might also suggest<br>
that Web-based media are heavily pushed by some folks -- present company<br>
excluded -- over both mailing lists because Web media better support<br>
advertising and user-tracking / datamining.)<br>
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
> 2) A javascript forum would solve the threading issue. See the Israeli<br>
> <a href="http://www.tapuz.co.il/Forums" target="_blank">http://www.tapuz.co.il/Forums</a><br>
<br>
</div>What's the expression in Ivrit? 'Hetzi-hetzi'? ;-> Even the best<br>
implementation of threading in Web fora pretty much is mediocre compared<br>
to the RFC-defined implementation built right into SMTP. (Again, my<br>
opinion, but I think you'll find it widely shared.)<br>
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
> 3) Many forums have a PM system which solves the need for a personal<br>
> contact while protecting the privacy of the e-mail address (which is<br>
> easier to abuse and harder to change).<br>
<br>
</div>1. A private messaging system is not fully out of band. In the<br>
pathological case of, say, an abusive moderator, it is not unknown for<br>
a valued user to be just quietly banned and thus not reachable via PM,<br>
either.<br>
<br>
2. 'Privacy of the e-mail address' calls to mind the school of thought<br>
I call 'hiding from spammers'. That view (that it is useful or<br>
necessary to conceal one's e-mail address to be unfindable) is held by<br>
some even in the technical community, perhaps some on this mailing list,<br>
even. I do not care to discuss the matter in any further depth here, as<br>
it is off-topic, but: Hiding from spammers doesn't work.<br>
<br>
There is a particular meaning I intend by that, and I commonly hear<br>
objections that miss my meaning and focus on edge-cases that ignore the<br>
general truth. Anyway, I am willing to discuss the matter further<br>
elsewhere but not here.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
> 4) I think one of the biggest downsides of a mailing list is the lack of a<br>
> search engine.<br>
<br>
</div>The popularity of GNU Mailman and Sympa (among others), with their<br>
built-in Web archivers, over majordomo starting around 1998 has meant<br>
that most mailing lists are highly findable using Google Web search,<br>
DuckDuckGo, etc. even _if_ the mailing list admins never bother<br>
implementing local-site searching.<br>
<br>
For an entertaining read, enter this into Google Web search:<br>
<br>
site:<a href="http://lists.debian.org" target="_blank">lists.debian.org</a> 'dueling banjos'<br>
<br>
Context: <a href="http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#banjos" target="_blank">http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#banjos</a><br>
<br>
Dueling Banjos Effect<br>
<br>
Term coined<br>
(<a href="http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/09/msg00382.html" target="_blank">http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/09/msg00382.html</a>)<br>
by Jim Penny for self-perpetuating Internet prominence caused by<br>
feedback loops between search engines and Internet discussion fora.<br>
Refers in particular to bizarre and perplexing instances of such<br>
freaky fame.<br>
<br>
The eponymous example was triggered by one Martin Eldridge's deeply<br>
mistaken query (<a href="http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2000/07/msg00206.html" target="_blank">http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2000/07/msg00206.html</a>)<br>
on the Debian Linux distribution developers' mailing list<br>
(debian-devel), in July 2000: "Could you please send me the sheet music<br>
for Dueling Banjos, Regards Martin". Which in turn lent that mailing<br>
list high prominence on all subsequent Google searches for "sheet music<br>
Dueling Banjos", which lead to other people's (completely inappropriate)<br>
queries much like Eldridge's, and so on.<br>
<br>
To head off the inevitable queries *I* would otherwise get:<br>
No, I don't have that sheet music. Neither does the Debian Project,<br>
despite porting efforts<br>
(<a href="http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2000/09/msg00862.html" target="_blank">http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2000/09/msg00862.html</a>).<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
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