<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On 16/11/2006, at 3:06 PM, Forrest J. Cavalier III wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I like it that you approached license-discuss for comments.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I'm glad :).</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Because the sphere of application is so different,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I think trying to conform to the letter of the OSD is going</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to be frustrating, as you are finding.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">But the OSD is a definition based on underlying principles</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">of fairness and cooperation.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>I'd enjoy seeing discussion of the</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">underlying principles (explained in the rationale paragraphs of</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the OSD) applied to biotech.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>I've tried to do this in a chapter I'm writing for a book on OS biotech and in other presentations etc. It seems to me that the key aspects of OS licensing, expressed in a generic way, are: </DIV><DIV>1. credible commitment to specific terms of collaboration through the mechanism of IP licensing -- meaning (1) that both licensor and licensee promise to behave in a particular way and are prepared to submit to some form of sanction (whether community shaming or legal action or a combination) if they don't and (2) that the owner of the IP clearly stakes a property claim, so that both licensor and licensee have protection from third party claims</DIV><DIV>2. free competition between licensor and licensees and among licensees, including the freedom to fork</DIV><DIV>3. optionally, copyleft: the idea that property rights can be used to make downstream technologies "free" </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">If you want a discussion, and not shotgun feedback, can you</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">consider picking, say, the top 3 things you want to discuss?</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Then go in order?<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Multiple threads are going to be hard</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to follow on this, for me at least.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I'd like to see discussion of all the points I raised under the heading "specific queries". But I guess for me the most important question is whether a patent licence can achieve the three goals above, especially freedom to fork. I'm not clear on which aspects of the OSD are supposed to protect that freedom, but in any case, it's interesting to know whether there's something about patent law that prevents you from functionally achieving the same goals as an open source copyright licence.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>A few things have already been written on this but I'll bring them up if and when the discussion warrants.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">You already identified some conflicts with the OSD.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>They</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">look like interesting places to start discussion.</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><DIV>Do you agree that these are conflicts?</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Dr Janet Hope</DIV><DIV>Centre for Governance of Knowledge and Development</DIV><DIV>Research School of Social Sciences</DIV><DIV>Australian National University</DIV><DIV>T: +61 2 6125 0172</DIV><DIV>F: +61 2 6125 1507</DIV><DIV><A href="mailto:janet.hope@anu.edu.au">janet.hope@anu.edu.au</A></DIV><DIV><A href="http://rsss.anu.edu.au/~janeth">http://rsss.anu.edu.au/~janeth</A></DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>