[License-discuss] Ethical + Support license addition for Apache

[Gil Yehuda]

>
>  Let me clarify, I don't determine that [ my company was ethical enough
> or pledged enough support for us to continue to use your code], you do
> :-)
>
You use the code, you "Make sure your use of the software complies with
> your own ethical standards", and you decide on the support $ amount.
>

In that case, don't make my use of your code conditioned on this by putting
your additional clauses in a license file as a term of use.

You can put the phrase "You have to answer yes to: Are you proud of what
you're doing?"  on every file of your software in a comment block and on
every footer of your web page. You can adopt a company moto: "Don't be
evil" (it's been done before). Every time I visit your website or read your
code I'll think of my late father. He was a rabbi. He also told me that I
should only do things I'm proud of.  But he didn't put it in a legal text.
I agree with your sentiment. I caution your implementation.

Gil Yehuda: I help with external technology engagement

>From the Open Source Program Office
<https://developer.yahoo.com/opensource/docs/> at Yahoo --> Oath - ->
Verizon Media


On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 10:46 AM Ofer <blueofer at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, 8 Aug 2019 at 17:36, Gil Yehuda via License-discuss <
> license-discuss at lists.opensource.org> wrote:
>
>> >I'd love to know what you think of the whole thing.
>>
>> tl;dr: It's difficult to control other people's actions. Instead, seek
>> acceptable outcome for yourself, and inspire goodness in others.
>>
>> You explain "I'd like to open source my company's code, but, I'm worried
>> my code will be misused." which is a consideration we all have. But it's
>> difficult to say what "misuse" means. Your example of misuse is competition
>> and someone upset about progression from product to commodity. Is enabling
>> these _misuse_? It might have a negative consequence to the code publisher,
>> but it also has a positive outcome to everyone else. Misuse or market
>> forces?
>>
>> That said, your proposed terms don't address outcomes that limit
>> competition, but suggest people follow a set of ethical practices. Lofty
>> aspiration, but why put it in a legal document? Write a blog post, give a
>> sermon, inspire people to be good and charitable. Some people will listen,
>> and the world (and the recipients of the charity) will thank you. But if
>> you put it in a license, (like the JSON license did) it will not accomplish
>> much. Since the release of the JSON license the world has yet to been
>> inspired to avoid using software for evil.
>>
>> Practically: if anyone at my company wishes to use the Wakkaworks code
>> under the modified license you pointed to, I will block them from doing so.
>> It's not that I don't agree to be Ethical (#10) or to pledge Support (#11)
>> to open source projects. Rather, I don't agree to have you determine if my
>> company was ethical enough or pledged enough support for us to continue to
>> use your code.
>>
> Let me clarify, I don't determine that, you do :-)
> You use the code, you "Make sure your use of the software complies with
> your own ethical standards", and you decide on the support $ amount.
>
>
>
>> I suggest that if you find a company behaving unethically, that you don't
>> do business with them. But withholding their access to your source code is
>> not going to scale well or be effective. Are you really going to spend time
>> tracking all the people who use your code and determining if they paid
>> their pledges?
>>
>> I'd inspire charity and ethics by example, not by legal terms. Take the
>> text from your license file and put it in your readme file. Say "We do the
>> right thing. We are proud of what we do. We give at least $12 a year to
>> charity as our way to perform Da'ana... We encourage users of our source
>> code to do the same and make the world a better place." That can't hurt,
>> it's a declaration, not a condition of use. Licenses are not inspirational
>> texts.
>>
>> Gil Yehuda: I help with external technology engagement
>>
>> From the Open Source Program Office
>> <https://developer.yahoo.com/opensource/docs/> at Yahoo --> Oath - ->
>> Verizon Media
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 9:31 AM Ofer <blueofer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> I'm a developer, now turned startup founder, so not much legal
>>> background except my own curiosity.
>>>
>>> I'd like to open source my company's code, but, I'm worried my code will
>>> be misused.
>>>
>>> The way I see it, code can bring value to a company.
>>> By open sourcing the code, I can help share this value with other
>>> companies, which is great.
>>> BUT -
>>> If my company open sources code, and then another company uses it to
>>> decrease my company's value (e.g by direct competition), that's a bad
>>> outcome. Recent example
>>> <https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/09/aws-gives-open-source-the-middle-finger/>.
>>> The other company could balance the fact that they're using my code and
>>> decreasing my company's value, by paying my company. So it could still be
>>> an overall win-win.
>>>
>>> The value my code brings to other companies also really varies on their
>>> use, so it's hard for me to even determine it.
>>>
>>> So, I thought of adding these 2 clauses to Apache:
>>> 1. Self-ethics: Make sure your use of the software complies with your
>>> own ethical standards. [I think this clause is just a good thing to have
>>> anyway, but also helps with the second, which is based on good-faith].
>>> 2. Support: Give back a proportion of the value this software adds to
>>> your business. For example, consider supporting with 10% of the added value
>>> you get from this software vs an alternative option. Open source is a form
>>> of public project, so this support is a form of daana (For more on daana,
>>> see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C4%81na). I thought about
>>> requiring a symbolic support of 1$ per company per month (or year?) as a
>>> minimum and also requiring them to list themselves as users of the code
>>> with a description of their usage and support amount.
>>>
>>> You can see a sort of a draft I wrote for the above 2 sections in the
>>> Apache license:
>>> https://github.com/wakkaworks/wakka/blob/master/LICENSE#L180-L191
>>>
>>> I'd love to know what you think of the whole thing.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ofer Bartal
>>> CEO at WakkaWorks
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> License-discuss mailing list
>>> License-discuss at lists.opensource.org
>>>
>>> http://lists.opensource.org/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss_lists.opensource.org
>>>
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