[License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1
Richard Fontana
fontana at opensource.org
Fri Mar 17 20:55:47 UTC 2017
I would just encourage you to consider instead recommending the
enlightened approach being taken by your colleagues at
github.com/deptofdefense/code.mil, which would be more consistent with
the ARL lawyers' apparent belief that some horrible disaster will occur
if they put US published code under a copyright license. :)
On Fri, Mar 17, 2017, at 04:47 PM, Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL
(US) wrote:
> That was what I was afraid of. OK, in that case I'll make the
> recommendation that ARL does what I was outlining before, and hope that
> CC0 will one day be considered Open Source as well.
>
> Thanks,
> Cem Karan
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-bounces at opensource.org] On Behalf Of Richard Fontana
> > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 11:18 AM
> > To: license-discuss at opensource.org
> > Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL
> > OSL) Version 0.4.1
> >
> > All active links contained in this email were disabled. Please verify the identity of the sender, and confirm the authenticity of all links
> > contained within the message prior to copying and pasting the address to a Web browser.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----
> >
> > I don't see how you could convince OSI of this in any way that would not involve submission and approval of CC0.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 12:32:26PM +0000, Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US) wrote:
> > > OK, so different groups have different opinions. I'm glad Fedora views CC0 as meeting the OSD definitions though. I'd still like to
> > convince OSI that the route I outlined earlier should be considered to be Open Source; I think it'll make things easier for a lot of the
> > Government.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Cem Karan
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: License-discuss
> > > > [Caution-mailto:license-discuss-bounces at opensource.org] On Behalf Of
> > > > Tom Callaway
> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:46 PM
> > > > To: license-discuss at opensource.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible
> > > > alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source
> > > > License (ARL
> > > > OSL) Version 0.4.1
> > > >
> > > > All active links contained in this email were disabled. Please
> > > > verify the identity of the sender, and confirm the authenticity of all links contained within the message prior to copying and pasting
> > the address to a Web browser.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'd think the only ones who get to apply the "Open Source" label to
> > > > licenses would be the OSI. Fedora's opinion is that CC-0 meets the OSD.
> > > >
> > > > On Mar 16, 2017 4:31 PM, "Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)"
> > > > <cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil < Caution- Caution-mailto:cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cool! Would Fedora/Red Hat consider it to be Open Source?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Cem Karan
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: License-discuss
> > > > [Caution-Caution-mailto:license-discuss-bounces at opensource.org <
> > > > Caution-Caution-mailto:license-discuss-
> > > > bounces at opensource.org > ] On Behalf Of Tom Callaway
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 3:31 PM
> > > > > To: license-discuss at opensource.org < Caution-Caution-mailto:license-discuss at opensource.org >
> > > > > Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible
> > > > alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL
> > > > > OSL) Version 0.4.1
> > > > >
> > > > > All active links contained in this email were disabled. Please
> > > > verify the identity of the sender, and confirm the authenticity of all links
> > > > > contained within the message prior to copying and pasting the address to a Web browser.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Can't speak for Debian, but Fedora will happily take software licensed as you describe.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mar 16, 2017 3:09 PM, "Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL
> > > > (US)" <cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil < Caution- Caution-mailto:cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil > < Caution-
> > > > > Caution-Caution-mailto:cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil < Caution-Caution-mailto:cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree that the Government can release it as open source, but as I understand it, not as Open Source. The difference is
> > > > whether
> > > > > or not the code will be accepted into various journals (Journal
> > > > of Open Source Software is one). It also affects whether or not various
> > > > > distributions will accept the work (would Debian? I honestly don't know).
> > > > >
> > > > > And I'm not after plain vanilla CC0 code to be called Open Source, I'm after the method I outlined earlier. This side-steps the
> > > > need
> > > > > to have CC0 put forth by the license steward (I hope!). I know
> > > > that is splitting hairs, but at this point I'm tearing my hair out over this, and
> > > > > would like to put it to rest before I have to buy a wig.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Cem Karan
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: License-discuss [Caution-Caution-Caution-mailto:license-discuss-bounces at opensource.org < Caution-Caution-
> > mailto:license-discuss-
> > > > bounces at opensource.org > < Caution-Caution-Caution-mailto:license-discuss- < Caution-Caution-mailto:license-discuss- >
> > > > > bounces at opensource.org < Caution-Caution-mailto:bounces at opensource.org > > ] On Behalf Of Tzeng, Nigel H.
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 2:48 PM
> > > > > > To: license-discuss at opensource.org < Caution-Caution-mailto:license-discuss at opensource.org > < Caution-Caution-
> > Caution-mailto:license-
> > > > discuss at opensource.org < Caution-Caution-mailto:license-discuss at opensource.org > >
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open
> > > > Source
> > > > > License (ARL
> > > > > > OSL) Version 0.4.1
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All active links contained in this email were disabled. Please verify the identity of the sender, and confirm the authenticity
> > > > of all
> > > > > links
> > > > > > contained within the message prior to copying and pasting the address to a Web browser.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cem,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The USG does not need OSI’s approval to release code as open source under CC0. It has done so already on code.gov <
> > > > Caution-Caution-http://code.gov > < Caution-
> > > > > Caution-Caution-http://code.gov < Caution-Caution-http://code.gov > > . This includes the
> > > > > > OPM, NASA, GSA, DOT, DOL, DOC and others. CC0 is compliant with the Federal Source Code Policy for open source
> > > > release.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is unlikely that you can push CC0 through license review as you aren’t the license steward. It is up to CC to resubmit CC0
> > > > for
> > > > > approval.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nigel
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 3/16/17, 8:56 AM, "License-discuss on behalf of Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)" <license-discuss-
> > > > > > bounces at opensource.org < Caution-Caution-mailto:bounces at opensource.org > < Caution-Caution-
> > > > Caution-mailto:bounces at opensource.org <
> > > > Caution-Caution-mailto:bounces at opensource.org > > on behalf of cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil < Caution- Caution-
> > mailto:cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil > < Caution-
> > > > > Caution-Caution-mailto:cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil < Caution-Caution-mailto:cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All, I want to keep this alive as I haven't seen a conclusion yet. Earlier I
> > > > > > asked if OSI would accept the US Government (USG) putting its non-copyrighted
> > > > > > works out under CC0 as Open Source **provided** that the USG accepts and
> > > > > > redistributes copyrighted contributions under an OSI-approved license. Is
> > > > > > this acceptable to OSI? Should I move this discussion to the license-review
> > > > > > list?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To recap:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) This would only cover USG works that do not have copyright. Works that
> > > > > > have copyright would be eligible to use copyright-based licenses, and to be
> > > > > > OSI-approved as Open Source would need to use an OSI-approved license.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2) The USG work/project would select an OSI-approved license that it accepted
> > > > > > contributions under. The USG would redistribute the contributions under that
> > > > > > license, but the portions of the work that are not under copyright would be
> > > > > > redistributed under CC0. That means that for some projects (ones that have no
> > > > > > copyrighted material at all initially), the only license that the works would
> > > > > > have would be CC0.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I can't speak to patents or other IP rights that the USG has, I can only
> > > > > > comment on what the Army Research Laboratory (ARL) has done
> > > > > > (Caution-Caution-Caution-Caution-https://github.com/USArmyResearchLab/ARL-Open-Source-Guidance-and-
> > Instructions <
> > > > Caution-Caution-https://github.com/USArmyResearchLab/ARL-Open-Source-Guidance-and-Instructions > < Caution-
> > > > >
> > > > Caution-Caution-https://github.com/USArmyResearchLab/ARL-Open-Source-Guidance-and-Instructions < Caution- Caution-
> > https://github.com/USArmyResearchLab/ARL-Open-Source-Guidance-and-Instructions > > ),
> > > > > > which includes a step to affirmatively waive any patent rights that ARL might
> > > > > > have in the project before distributing it. I am hoping that other agencies
> > > > > > will do something similar, but have no power or authority to say that they
> > > > > > will.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Given all this, is it time to move this to license-review, or otherwise get a
> > > > > > vote? I'd like this solved ASAP.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Cem Karan
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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