[License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) 0.4.0

[Lawrence Rosen]

McCoy Smith wrote:
> I believe that to be an effective waiver of liability, despite the fact that there is not copyright rights being conveyed.  Does anyone believe that that waiver is ineffective?

Liability for commercial products (e.g., electronic devices and cars) cannot be entirely waived in many jurisdictions despite the warranty and liability language in the software license. And liability for intentional torts cannot be waived. 
You can't throw banana peels at the front of the parade and expect to be forgiven for injuries.

Other than that, waiver of liability in CC0 is probably effective. That is what McCoy meant by "to the extent permissible by law."

I still don't understand what the U.S. Army Research Laboratory expects beyond that. Such limitation of liability language is already in every FOSS license even though it won't keep a really evil software guy (even an Army researcher) out of jail.

/Larry


-----Original Message-----
From: Smith, McCoy [mailto:mccoy.smith at intel.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 8:41 AM
To: license-discuss at opensource.org
Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) 0.4.0

I haven't been following all of this thread, but it seems a lot of the genesis of this license is the idea that there needs to be some sort of contract for, or license to, the non-copyrightable elements of the distributed code for the disclaimer of warranties and liability to be effective (at least, with respect to the non-copyrightable parts of the distributed code).  I'm not sure that that premise is correct, legally, although I can't say that with certainty (and I don't have the inclination to do a research project).

CC0 gives a complete (to the extent permissible by law) waiver of copyright rights, as well as a disclaimer of liability for the "Work" (which is that which copyright has been waived).  I believe that to be an effective waiver of liability, despite the fact that there is not copyright rights being conveyed.  Does anyone believe that that waiver is ineffective?

-----Original Message-----
From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-bounces at opensource.org] On Behalf Of Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 8:13 AM
To: license-discuss at opensource.org
Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) 0.4.0

OK, but wouldn't those changes mean that the license no longer applies to the uncopyrightable portions?  That would mean that downstream users would no longer have any protection from being sued, etc., right?

Thanks,
Cem Karan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-bounces at opensource.org]
> On Behalf Of Engel Nyst
> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 7:17 PM
> To: license-discuss <license-discuss at opensource.org>
> Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: U.S. Army Research 
> Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) 0.4.0
>
> All active links contained in this email were disabled.  Please verify 
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>
> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 11:59 PM, Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL
> (US) <cem.f.karan.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
> >> >    4. Redistribution. You may reproduce and distribute copies of the
> >> >       Work or Derivative Works thereof in any medium, with or without
> >> >       modifications, and in Source or Object form, provided that You
> >> >       meet the following conditions:
> >>
> >> I'd suggest to add in clause 4, or in its obligations a)-d), an "if 
> >> copyright exists" or something similar. If copyright doesn't exist 
> >> in the Work, can't put enforceable conditions on redistributions.
> >
> > What wording would you suggest?
>
> "4. Redistribution. You may reproduce and distribute copies of the
>       Work or Derivative Works thereof in any medium, with or without
>       modifications, and in Source or Object form, provided that for
>       Works subject to copyright You meet the following conditions:"
> Or,
> "4. Redistribution. You may reproduce and distribute copies of the
>       Work or Derivative Works thereof in any medium, with or without
>       modifications, and in Source or Object form, provided that You
>       meet the following conditions for the copyrightable parts of the
>       Work or Derivative Works:"
> Or,
> "4. Redistribution. You may reproduce and distribute copies of the
>       Work or Derivative Works thereof in any medium, with or without
>       modifications, and in Source or Object form, provided that You
>       meet the following conditions:
>
>       (a) You must give any other recipients of the Work or
>           Derivative Works a copy of this License, except when the Work
>           or Derivative Work is not subject to copyright; and
>
>       (b) You must cause any modified files to carry prominent notices
>           stating that You changed the files, excluding those files that
>           contained no copyrightable part; and"
>
> In the latter, (c) and (d) seem to already have applicable exclusions.
>
> The first seems cleanest to me.
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