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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>David Webber wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>>>> OK Larry - you're a legal dude - this is highly problematic - and most jurisdictions not doing this. What I will offer instead is - when you register online - then you can log back into that system - and see a log of your voting activity. This will show you that your vote was received back. It can also allow you to check a box for "record ballot" so you can see that - BUT this is going to be highly jurisdiction and ballot / voter dependent. We should definitely allow people to opt out or opt in for this.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><<<</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>1. I don't need a log of my voting activity. Party pollsters want that. Google wants that. They also want my Facebook and LinkedIn accounts. Don't give it to them. Instead, what I want to do is vote next Tuesday and verify (through independent audit) that my vote was received and counted.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>2. Unfortunately, being born in the U.S. or naturalized, and over the age of 18, is not enough to register to vote. Automatically – until death. That's a different and surmountable obstacle to electronic voting that deserves its own email thread here at CAVO.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>3. Of course I accept opt-in and opt-out.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>>>> Please do not use Facebook and LinkedIn in the same sentence as security technology!!! These folks are part of the problem - NOT the solution. Their websites are terribly intrusive running scripts that are looking at your computer and activity routinely. They are poster children for how NOT to do this. Privacy to them is what they can do with your information.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Okay, I won't. Except for that part of their technology which captures my Internet address and user account and PIN (just like the USPTO and Library of Congress and the IRS and the California Secretary of State and Department of Agriculture and many other government agencies do) to accept my legally important but confidential transactions. I'll risk that as long as it is open source security software.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> Audibility has to be a pluralistic approach - that is tuned to jurisdiction requirements - lots of tools in the technology toolbox to get this done right.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><<<</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Okay, I'll be pluralistic and suggest that this CAVO list engage in a technical (?) discussion of auditability. How much and by whom and how?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>/Larry<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> David RR Webber (XML) [mailto:david@drrw.info] <br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 5, 2016 10:21 AM<br><b>To:</b> lrosen@rosenlaw.com; CAVO <cavo@opensource.org><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CAVO] Online contracts and voting<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Larry,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Like most of your wish list - see my notes below please.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Thanks, David<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:6.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' id=replyBlockquote><div id=wmQuoteWrapper><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>-------- Original Message --------<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>David, thanks for continuing this thread. It is good that this CAVO list discusses actual solutions to real-world California voting problems rather than merely share our fears and newspaper press releases.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>I want a very simple replacement for the error-prone and insecure paper ballot that I used this week to pick our president. I hear that the majority of California voters vote this way by mail. There is NOTHING about this system that prevents any of the evil frauds and corruption that you expect from businesses and politicians, so be scared about our <u>current</u> third world voting system. </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>I want something simpler:</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:black'> #1 - </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>I want to receive an electronic ballot at my email address on my computer or mobile device. That's how the county and the U.S. government currently deal with me for almost everything else of significance, including my taxes!</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>>>> Done! We implemented this for the State of Virginia in 2010 and 2012 elections - all open source - and for 5M registered voters. We also validated this with the wounded warriors program to show disabled voting on tablet device using the system. Of course this does put onus on State to ensure only registered entitled voters receive and use ballots - but that's the same issue today with paper mail-in ballots.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><<<</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>I want to vote at my leisure. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>>>> Sure - #1 enables that. Post-marked up to day of ballot of course. <<<</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>I want to print out and/or save my completed ballot. I'll keep it secret if I want to or show my friends.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>>>> Whatever floats your boat! <<<</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>I want to send my ballot electronically to the county. (Yesterday I placed my completed paper ballot in a metal box in front of the county offices – with no security or auditability whatsoever. I am <u>now</u> paranoid!)</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>>>> Electronic delivery combined with paper mailed confirmation works. See solution #1 above - we also created mailing labels and enveloping instructions. USPS special handles ballot materials. <<<</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>I want the county to email me a confirmation and a copy of my completed ballot.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>>>> OK Larry - you're a legal dude - this is highly problematic - and most jurisdictions not doing this. What I will offer instead is - when you register online - then you can log back into that system - and see a log of your voting activity. This will show you that your vote was received back. It can also allow you to check a box for "record ballot" so you can see that - BUT this is going to be highly jurisdiction and ballot / voter dependent. We should definitely allow people to opt out or opt in for this.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><<<</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>I want the county to process my ballot on election day.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>>>> Obviously the digital mail-in allows for that. Paper mail-in will be processed with absentee ballots. <<<</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>I want this entire procedure to be auditable with email addresses, PINs, or whatever the kind of technology our Facebook and LinkedIn friends are willing to accept for security.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>>>> Please do not use Facebook and LinkedIn in the same sentence as security technology!!! These folks are part of the problem - NOT the solution. Their websites are terribly intrusive running scripts that are looking at your computer and activity routinely. They are poster children for how NOT to do this. Privacy to them is what they can do with your information.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> So now we realize how we don't want it to work - your digital ballot can be received and logged because it has a tracking ID - and that can be tagged to the matching paper ballot mailed in. But notice I can send you a paper document with a QR code to scan to initiate voting - so I know a real person - at a real postal address - received that. If you want to share an email - that's your choice naturally. You will need to log into the main site and download your ballot though - and validate your credentials - that is how #1 works now. And you don't have to email back a ballot - you can print and mail.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> Audibility has to be a pluralistic approach - that is tuned to jurisdiction requirements - lots of tools in the technology toolbox to get this done right.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><<<</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>If we can't do that without sending astronauts to Mars, then your technology solution is perhaps way too complex and paranoid. :-)</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>>>> Larry - every technology solution I engineer has the following characteristics</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>1) Simple and Obvious - not rocket science</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>2) Transparent - does not really on technology slights of hand that humans cannot verify</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>3) Open Source as foundation</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>4) Robust, Minimalistic and Sustainable design</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>5) Performance optimized</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>6) Open standards based</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>However making the solution simple and intuitive is NOT a simple process - it is paradoxically easier to engineer complexity than it is to make things elegant and minimalistic.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><<<</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>/David</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> David RR Webber (XML) [<a href="mailto:david@drrw.info">mailto:david@drrw.info</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 4, 2016 9:09 PM<br><b>To:</b> CAVO <<a href="mailto:cavo@opensource.org">cavo@opensource.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CAVO] Online contracts and voting</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Larry,</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>You are right to compare the USA to a third world country - its getting there.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>The Kenya system is called M-Pesa - "Mobile money". It is using a secure system invented in England - and the password is a simple PIN code.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Notice you will NOT be able to do this is the USA because the banks and the IRS do not want you doing that - creating an alternative financial system with no central tracking system - that actually empowers small business and entrepreneurship. Here we still use paper cash money for that purpose.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>It is terribly inconvenient that people have to use old arcane paper ballots - but it is VERY necessary. You only have to look at how corrupt politicians are - and how adept they are at deflecting responsibility to realize that opening the flood gates to digital fraud is not prudent. Not to mention routine hacking of systems in 3 out of every 4 businesses in the USA.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Everything in the USA is being gamed. What is the real price of bread, milk, eggs, gas, cars, paper, sugar, corn... ? Again - the current primaries system tells you much. Want to make primaries voting all digital - so no one has any clue who actually voted, and for whom really?</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>May as well walk those envelopes over to your recycle bin and just toss them in there.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>But I'm not paranoid - I just have a healthy distrust and cynicism built in.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Cheers, David</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:6.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' id=replyBlockquote><div id=wmQuoteWrapper><div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>-------- Original Message --------<br>Subject: Re: [CAVO] Online contracts and voting<br>From: "Lawrence Rosen" <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com" target="_blank">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>><br>Date: Thu, June 02, 2016 5:54 pm<br>To: "'CAVO'" <<a href="mailto:cavo@opensource.org" target="_blank">cavo@opensource.org</a>><br>Cc: Lawrence Rosen <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com" target="_blank">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>></span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>David Webber wrote:</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Please send money and we can engineer this for you.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Such unreasonable paranoia about voting! </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>I have on my desk right now two signed and sealed ballots for the California primary next week. I know that my partner voted for a different candidate than I did. I'm going to walk into the County office and drop these two ballots, probably unmodified :-), into a wooden box on their counter. Somehow our votes will be counted by some machine that reads ink in bubbles. Results next Tuesday. Perhaps some of our votes will count. </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>And so our president will be chosen!</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Please don't waste your design time engineering a solution for problems I don't have. Just give me a simple way to vote – securely and with a trusted record – more effectively and cheaply than those two silly envelopes on my desk.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>BTW, in Kenya almost all financial transactions are made through ordinary cell phones with passwords. And even here, in the U.S., my bank will accept deposits sent through pictures of signed checks from my phone. But we're much more paranoid here, especially about voting. </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>/Larry</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> David RR Webber (XML) [<a href="mailto:david@drrw.info" target="_blank">mailto:david@drrw.info</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 2, 2016 2:39 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com" target="_blank">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>; CAVO <<a href="mailto:cavo@opensource.org" target="_blank">cavo@opensource.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CAVO] Online contracts and voting</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Larry,</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>That's why the USPS now accepts digital copies of money orders, instead of having to send the paper one.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Not! That could of course be digital too - but - you would need a way to track all that - matching digitally presented versions to repository. That's called Paypal, Google, Square or ApplePay et al.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Similarly registering to vote - concur - that can be a digital process - but then its gets more tricky. Yes - I can issue you with a digital voting token - but then how do I know you really cast that ballot? Parties could cast proxy votes for party members - and maybe there's nothing wrong with that - but - we're not there yet. </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Unlike in the money order or check situation - where tracking who does what inbetween is not part of the process - with balloting it is. Except there's a twist - in the banking transaction - everything can be logged to a specific user entity - whereas in voting it has to be anonymous. And that is where things get problematic. It's a bit like Heisenberg's uncertainty principle - the more anonymous you make it - the less you know what happened - the more you know what happened - the less anonymous.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>And then who do you trust? Personally I want to see 3 separate systems of record - and be able to cross check. So if 1 gets compromised its obvious. And then to compromise all 3 simultaneously - that's really hard to do.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>And it all needs to be open source and accredited.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Please send money and we can engineer this for you.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>David</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:6.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' id=replyBlockquote><div id=wmQuoteWrapper><div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>-------- Original Message --------<br>Subject: [CAVO] Online contracts and voting<br>From: "Lawrence Rosen" <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com" target="_blank"><span style='color:windowtext'>lrosen@rosenlaw.com</span></a>><br>Date: Thu, June 02, 2016 1:54 pm<br>To: "'CAVO'" <<a href="mailto:cavo@opensource.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:windowtext'>cavo@opensource.org</span></a>><br>Cc: Lawrence Rosen <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com" target="_blank"><span style='color:windowtext'>lrosen@rosenlaw.com</span></a>></span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>I haven't executed a contract in recent years – even with the federal or state or county government – that wasn't immortalized by some form of electronic signature. Sometimes they also require a paper signature on paper forms that they file somewhere and then throw away. But I'm as legally bound by my scanned signature as I am by my hand-signed document.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>One of my clients recently complained about the boxes of printed documents that they passed, from year to year, to their non-profit volunteer corporate secretary. But instead, I told them, PDF copies of most documents, stored in an online repository with security and backup, is all anyone needs nowadays.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Registering and voting should be no more difficult than what the government already accepts on almost everything nowadays.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>/Larry</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> David RR Webber (XML) [<a href="mailto:david@drrw.info" target="_blank">mailto:david@drrw.info</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 2, 2016 10:11 AM<br><b>To:</b> CAVO <<a href="mailto:cavo@opensource.org" target="_blank">cavo@opensource.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CAVO] Article</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>And these same people will be the first ones to cry "Foul" if someone gets on the ballot with dubious credentials that they can neither refute nor confirm - via some "Kickstarter" like campaign...</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>David</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:6.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' id=replyBlockquote><div id=wmQuoteWrapper><div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>-------- Original Message --------<br>Subject: [CAVO] Article<br>From: Brent Turner <<a href="mailto:turnerbrentm@gmail.com" target="_blank">turnerbrentm@gmail.com</a>><br>Date: Thu, June 02, 2016 1:01 pm<br>To: CAVO <<a href="mailto:CAVO@opensource.org" target="_blank">CAVO@opensource.org</a>></span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/michelle-quinn/ci_29959886/quinn-elections-should-ditch-paper-embrace-technology" target="_blank">http://www.mercurynews.com/michelle-quinn/ci_29959886/quinn-elections-should-ditch-paper-embrace-technology</a></span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><hr size=3 width="100%" align=center></span></div></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>CAVO mailing list<br><a href="mailto:CAVO@opensource.org" target="_blank">CAVO@opensource.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo" target="_blank">https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo</a></span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><hr size=3 width="100%" align=center></span></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>CAVO mailing list<br><a href="mailto:CAVO@opensource.org" target="_blank">CAVO@opensource.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo" target="_blank">https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo</a></span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><hr size=3 width="100%" align=center></span></div></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>CAVO mailing list<br><a href="mailto:CAVO@opensource.org" target="_blank">CAVO@opensource.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo" target="_blank">https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo</a></span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><hr size=3 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>CAVO mailing list<br><a href="mailto:CAVO@opensource.org">CAVO@opensource.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo">https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></body></html>