<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
p.msonormal00, li.msonormal00, div.msonormal00
{mso-style-name:msonormal0;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
p.msochpdefault, li.msochpdefault, div.msochpdefault
{mso-style-name:msochpdefault;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
span.emailstyle18
{mso-style-name:emailstyle18;}
span.emailstyle19
{mso-style-name:emailstyle19;}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;
text-decoration:none none;}
span.EmailStyle23
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;
text-decoration:none none;}
span.EmailStyle24
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;
text-decoration:none none;}
span.EmailStyle25
{mso-style-type:personal-compose;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;
text-decoration:none none;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#000000" vlink="#000000"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>David Webber wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Please send money and we can engineer this for you.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Such unreasonable paranoia about voting! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I have on my desk right now two signed and sealed ballots for the California primary next week. I know that my partner voted for a different candidate than I did. I'm going to walk into the County office and drop these two ballots, probably unmodified :-), into a wooden box on their counter. Somehow our votes will be counted by some machine that reads ink in bubbles. Results next Tuesday. Perhaps some of our votes will count. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>And so our president will be chosen!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Please don't waste your design time engineering a solution for problems I don't have. Just give me a simple way to vote – securely and with a trusted record – more effectively and cheaply than those two silly envelopes on my desk.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>BTW, in Kenya almost all financial transactions are made through ordinary cell phones with passwords. And even here, in the U.S., my bank will accept deposits sent through pictures of signed checks from my phone. But we're much more paranoid here, especially about voting. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>/Larry<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> David RR Webber (XML) [mailto:david@drrw.info] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 2, 2016 2:39 PM<br><b>To:</b> lrosen@rosenlaw.com; CAVO <cavo@opensource.org><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CAVO] Online contracts and voting<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Larry,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>That's why the USPS now accepts digital copies of money orders, instead of having to send the paper one.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Not! That could of course be digital too - but - you would need a way to track all that - matching digitally presented versions to repository. That's called Paypal, Google, Square or ApplePay et al.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Similarly registering to vote - concur - that can be a digital process - but then its gets more tricky. Yes - I can issue you with a digital voting token - but then how do I know you really cast that ballot? Parties could cast proxy votes for party members - and maybe there's nothing wrong with that - but - we're not there yet. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Unlike in the money order or check situation - where tracking who does what inbetween is not part of the process - with balloting it is. Except there's a twist - in the banking transaction - everything can be logged to a specific user entity - whereas in voting it has to be anonymous. And that is where things get problematic. It's a bit like Heisenberg's uncertainty principle - the more anonymous you make it - the less you know what happened - the more you know what happened - the less anonymous.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>And then who do you trust? Personally I want to see 3 separate systems of record - and be able to cross check. So if 1 gets compromised its obvious. And then to compromise all 3 simultaneously - that's really hard to do.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>And it all needs to be open source and accredited.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Please send money and we can engineer this for you.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>David<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:6.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' id=replyBlockquote><div id=wmQuoteWrapper><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>-------- Original Message --------<br>Subject: [CAVO] Online contracts and voting<br>From: "Lawrence Rosen" <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com"><span style='color:windowtext'>lrosen@rosenlaw.com</span></a>><br>Date: Thu, June 02, 2016 1:54 pm<br>To: "'CAVO'" <<a href="mailto:cavo@opensource.org"><span style='color:windowtext'>cavo@opensource.org</span></a>><br>Cc: Lawrence Rosen <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com"><span style='color:windowtext'>lrosen@rosenlaw.com</span></a>><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>I haven't executed a contract in recent years – even with the federal or state or county government – that wasn't immortalized by some form of electronic signature. Sometimes they also require a paper signature on paper forms that they file somewhere and then throw away. But I'm as legally bound by my scanned signature as I am by my hand-signed document.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>One of my clients recently complained about the boxes of printed documents that they passed, from year to year, to their non-profit volunteer corporate secretary. But instead, I told them, PDF copies of most documents, stored in an online repository with security and backup, is all anyone needs nowadays.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Registering and voting should be no more difficult than what the government already accepts on almost everything nowadays.</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>/Larry</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> David RR Webber (XML) [<a href="mailto:david@drrw.info"><u><span style='color:blue'>mailto:david@drrw.info</span></u></a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 2, 2016 10:11 AM<br><b>To:</b> CAVO <<a href="mailto:cavo@opensource.org"><u><span style='color:blue'>cavo@opensource.org</span></u></a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CAVO] Article</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>And these same people will be the first ones to cry "Foul" if someone gets on the ballot with dubious credentials that they can neither refute nor confirm - via some "Kickstarter" like campaign...</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>David</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:6.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' id=replyBlockquote><div id=wmQuoteWrapper><div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>-------- Original Message --------<br>Subject: [CAVO] Article<br>From: Brent Turner <<a href="mailto:turnerbrentm@gmail.com" target="_blank"><u><span style='color:blue'>turnerbrentm@gmail.com</span></u></a>><br>Date: Thu, June 02, 2016 1:01 pm<br>To: CAVO <<a href="mailto:CAVO@opensource.org" target="_blank"><u><span style='color:blue'>CAVO@opensource.org</span></u></a>></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/michelle-quinn/ci_29959886/quinn-elections-should-ditch-paper-embrace-technology" target="_blank"><u><span style='color:blue'>http://www.mercurynews.com/michelle-quinn/ci_29959886/quinn-elections-should-ditch-paper-embrace-technology</span></u></a></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><hr size=3 width="100%" align=center></span></div></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>CAVO mailing list<br><a href="mailto:CAVO@opensource.org" target="_blank"><u><span style='color:blue'>CAVO@opensource.org</span></u></a><br><a href="https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo" target="_blank"><u><span style='color:blue'>https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo</span></u></a></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><hr size=3 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>CAVO mailing list<br><a href="mailto:CAVO@opensource.org"><u><span style='color:blue'>CAVO@opensource.org</span></u></a><br><a href="https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo"><u><span style='color:blue'>https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo</span></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></body></html>