<div dir="ltr">Great- Thanks to all-<div><br></div><div> BT </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 1:56 PM, Brian J. Fox <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bfox@opuslogica.com" target="_blank">bfox@opuslogica.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">GIT for sure - but CAVO can host it so that we aren’t endorsing any company’s political views?<div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Feb 23, 2016, at 1:48 PM, David RR Webber (XML) <<a href="mailto:david@drrw.info" target="_blank">david@drrw.info</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10pt"><div>Patrick,</div><div> </div><div>You raise another great point about a typical project lifecycle and outcomes.</div><div> </div><div>I have exactly seen that bunker process many times - and what gets thrown over the wall is a "product" that actually cannot be verified nor properly compiled.</div><div> </div><div>So everything has to be out in the open.</div><div> </div><div>To answer Brent's question Github and Sourceforge models work and can be verified.</div><div> </div><div>Simple is good.</div><div> </div><div>David</div><div> </div><div> </div><blockquote style="font-size:10pt;font-family:verdana;padding-left:8px;margin-left:8px;border-left-color:blue;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid"><div>-------- Original Message --------<br>Subject: Re: [CAVO] A host for an open source election system project<br>From: Brent Turner <<a href="mailto:turnerbrentm@gmail.com" target="_blank">turnerbrentm@gmail.com</a>><br>Date: Tue, February 23, 2016 4:41 pm<br>To: Patrick Masson <<a href="mailto:masson@opensource.org" target="_blank">masson@opensource.org</a>>, CAVO <<a href="mailto:cavo@opensource.org" target="_blank">cavo@opensource.org</a>><br>Cc:<span> </span><a href="mailto:kcopenhaver@choate.com" target="_blank">kcopenhaver@choate.com</a>, Lawrence Rosen <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com" target="_blank">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>>, Tony<br>Wasserman <<a href="mailto:tonyw@opensource.org" target="_blank">tonyw@opensource.org</a>>, Chris Jerdonek<br><<a href="mailto:chris.jerdonek@sfgov.org" target="_blank">chris.jerdonek@sfgov.org</a>><br><br><div dir="ltr">Yes Patrick-<div><br></div><div>My reasoning for reaching out to yourself and Larry on this point is obvious-- who can we trust ? </div><div><br></div><div>In my recent conversations with the White House and Congressional members there is a bit of confusion as to best practices with regard to repositories as well as concern regarding service company availability. I guess these are good problems to have as it shows forward movement. </div><div><br></div><div>I have noticed that when new champions come along there is a tendency for group think to the extent the new found excitement might wish to replace the old guard pioneers. I persist we must keep our vetted core team in the driver's seat as we can not afford to be derailed here. </div><div><br></div><div>Best and thanks-</div><div><br></div><div>BT </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Patrick Masson<span> </span><span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:masson@opensource.org" target="_blank">masson@opensource.org</a>></span>wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="padding-left:1ex;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><u></u><div>I agree, care should be taken to ensure the autonomy, direction, ethos of the original developers/organizers is maintained.<span> </span><br><br>My suggestion would not be to relegate the project to some group, but rather find a place for--as we're quiting Simon Phipps--"a safe environment for the project to exist" or what he calls an "asset lock." <<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybAiTpqanDY" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybAiTpqanDY</a>>. I would offer that all of the operational and governance David rightly advocates for can be managed within the right foundation.<br><br>As we ll know, there is a lot of work in developing both the code and community. Again, the right foundation can reduce the overhead of starting up and maintaining the project: key phrase, "right foundation" that does not threaten the project just as David fears/describes.<br><br>My fear is that S.F. City generates an RFP that includes a requirement that the final result be distributed with an open source license. Then all the development goes off behind the closed doors of the winning contractor where only a final product is pushed over the wall. This is both a governance and operational/development catastrophe. I'd also be worried that that contractor retains the copyright (or even the city) versus a foundation where authority/governance is representative rather than appointed or sponsored (pay to play).<br><br>All that said, David is spot on to raise these concerns as a foundation can very much take over, or put such a burden on the project that it constrains it.<br><br>And again, quoting Simon from the above OSCON keynote, "If you're going to start a new activity, I beg you to join an existing organization if you possibly can--an existing proven organization." That video also has some other good advise that might be worth considering as your project moves forward.<br><br>Patrick<br><br><br>On Tue, 2016-02-23 at 13:29 -0700, David RR Webber (XML) wrote:<span> </span><blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:8px;margin-left:8px;border-left-color:blue;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid">My experience with all this is not at all positive I'm afraid.<span> </span></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:8px;margin-left:8px;border-left-color:blue;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid"><br>Whomever you assign it to then thinks they "own it" - and start down a slippery path to the dark side of control mania.<span> </span></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:8px;margin-left:8px;border-left-color:blue;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid"><br>Alternatively - all the original players leave there - and then the new folks ignore it - loose the domains - passwords et al.<span> </span></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:8px;margin-left:8px;border-left-color:blue;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid"><br>My preference is for the Github / Sourceforge model - where there is a team of technical folks managing the source base - and have a vested interest in that. Plus - you have people assigned tasks - and are submitting updates - and all changes are tracked.<br><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:8px;margin-left:8px;border-left-color:blue;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid">If you want to have some way for organizations - such as States or Cities to be stewards - and request features - fund updates - then that is cool - building an engaged user commuity.<span> </span></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:8px;margin-left:8px;border-left-color:blue;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid"><br><b>A great model for that is what LibreOffice is doing and see this posting from there:</b></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:8px;margin-left:8px;border-left-color:blue;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid"><b><a href="http://webmink.com/2016/02/19/joining-the-document-foundation-board" target="_blank">http://webmink.com/2016/02/19/joining-the-document-foundation-board</a>/</b><br><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:8px;margin-left:8px;border-left-color:blue;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid">Please don't call it a Foundation though - as Simon Phipps notes!!!<br><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:8px;margin-left:8px;border-left-color:blue;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid">David<span> </span></blockquote><br><br></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>CAVO mailing list<br><a href="mailto:CAVO@opensource.org" target="_blank">CAVO@opensource.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo</a><br><br></blockquote></div><br></div><hr>_______________________________________________<br>CAVO mailing list<br><a href="mailto:CAVO@opensource.org" target="_blank">CAVO@opensource.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo" target="_blank">https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo</a><br></div></blockquote></span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important"></span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">CAVO mailing list</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="mailto:CAVO@opensource.org" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">CAVO@opensource.org</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo</a></div></blockquote></div><br><div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div><span style="font-size:12px">Thanks,</span></div><div style="font-size:12px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12px">Brian</div><div style="font-size:12px">--</div><div style="font-size:12px">Brian J. Fox</div><div style="font-size:12px">Founder/CEO</div><div style="font-size:12px">Opus Logica, Inc.</div><div style="font-size:12px">A: 901 Olive St., 93101</div><div style="font-size:12px">O: 76-BAFFLE-76</div><div style="font-size:12px"><span>C: <a href="tel:805.637.8642" value="+18056378642" target="_blank">805.637.8642</a></span><br></div></div></div>
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