<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">GIT for sure - but CAVO can host it so that we aren’t endorsing any company’s political views?<div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 23, 2016, at 1:48 PM, David RR Webber (XML) <<a href="mailto:david@drrw.info" class="">david@drrw.info</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10pt;" class=""><div class="">Patrick,</div><div class=""> </div><div class="">You raise another great point about a typical project lifecycle and outcomes.</div><div class=""> </div><div class="">I have exactly seen that bunker process many times - and what gets thrown over the wall is a "product" that actually cannot be verified nor properly compiled.</div><div class=""> </div><div class="">So everything has to be out in the open.</div><div class=""> </div><div class="">To answer Brent's question Github and Sourceforge models work and can be verified.</div><div class=""> </div><div class="">Simple is good.</div><div class=""> </div><div class="">David</div><div class=""> </div><div class=""> </div><blockquote id="replyBlockquote" webmail="1" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: verdana; padding-left: 8px; margin-left: 8px; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;" class=""><div id="wmQuoteWrapper" class="">-------- Original Message --------<br class="">Subject: Re: [CAVO] A host for an open source election system project<br class="">From: Brent Turner <<a href="mailto:turnerbrentm@gmail.com" class="">turnerbrentm@gmail.com</a>><br class="">Date: Tue, February 23, 2016 4:41 pm<br class="">To: Patrick Masson <<a href="mailto:masson@opensource.org" class="">masson@opensource.org</a>>, CAVO <<a href="mailto:cavo@opensource.org" class="">cavo@opensource.org</a>><br class="">Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:kcopenhaver@choate.com" class="">kcopenhaver@choate.com</a>, Lawrence Rosen <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com" class="">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>>, Tony<br class="">Wasserman <<a href="mailto:tonyw@opensource.org" class="">tonyw@opensource.org</a>>, Chris Jerdonek<br class=""><<a href="mailto:chris.jerdonek@sfgov.org" class="">chris.jerdonek@sfgov.org</a>><br class=""><br class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Yes Patrick-<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My reasoning for reaching out to yourself and Larry on this point is obvious-- who can we trust ? </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In my recent conversations with the White House and Congressional members there is a bit of confusion as to best practices with regard to repositories as well as concern regarding service company availability. I guess these are good problems to have as it shows forward movement. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I have noticed that when new champions come along there is a tendency for group think to the extent the new found excitement might wish to replace the old guard pioneers. I persist we must keep our vetted core team in the driver's seat as we can not afford to be derailed here. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best and thanks-</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">BT </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Patrick Masson<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:masson@opensource.org" target="_blank" class="">masson@opensource.org</a>></span>wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="padding-left: 1ex; margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;"><u class=""></u><div class="">I agree, care should be taken to ensure the autonomy, direction, ethos of the original developers/organizers is maintained.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">My suggestion would not be to relegate the project to some group, but rather find a place for--as we're quiting Simon Phipps--"a safe environment for the project to exist" or what he calls an "asset lock." <<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybAiTpqanDY" target="_blank" class="">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybAiTpqanDY</a>>. I would offer that all of the operational and governance David rightly advocates for can be managed within the right foundation.<br class=""><br class="">As we ll know, there is a lot of work in developing both the code and community. Again, the right foundation can reduce the overhead of starting up and maintaining the project: key phrase, "right foundation" that does not threaten the project just as David fears/describes.<br class=""><br class="">My fear is that S.F. City generates an RFP that includes a requirement that the final result be distributed with an open source license. Then all the development goes off behind the closed doors of the winning contractor where only a final product is pushed over the wall. This is both a governance and operational/development catastrophe. I'd also be worried that that contractor retains the copyright (or even the city) versus a foundation where authority/governance is representative rather than appointed or sponsored (pay to play).<br class=""><br class="">All that said, David is spot on to raise these concerns as a foundation can very much take over, or put such a burden on the project that it constrains it.<br class=""><br class="">And again, quoting Simon from the above OSCON keynote, "If you're going to start a new activity, I beg you to join an existing organization if you possibly can--an existing proven organization." That video also has some other good advise that might be worth considering as your project moves forward.<br class=""><br class="">Patrick<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">On Tue, 2016-02-23 at 13:29 -0700, David RR Webber (XML) wrote:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left: 8px; margin-left: 8px; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;" class="">My experience with all this is not at all positive I'm afraid.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left: 8px; margin-left: 8px; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;" class=""><br class="">Whomever you assign it to then thinks they "own it" - and start down a slippery path to the dark side of control mania.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left: 8px; margin-left: 8px; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;" class=""><br class="">Alternatively - all the original players leave there - and then the new folks ignore it - loose the domains - passwords et al.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left: 8px; margin-left: 8px; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;" class=""><br class="">My preference is for the Github / Sourceforge model - where there is a team of technical folks managing the source base - and have a vested interest in that. Plus - you have people assigned tasks - and are submitting updates - and all changes are tracked.<br class=""><br class=""></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left: 8px; margin-left: 8px; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;" class="">If you want to have some way for organizations - such as States or Cities to be stewards - and request features - fund updates - then that is cool - building an engaged user commuity.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left: 8px; margin-left: 8px; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;" class=""><br class=""><b class="">A great model for that is what LibreOffice is doing and see this posting from there:</b></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left: 8px; margin-left: 8px; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;" class=""><b class=""><a href="http://webmink.com/2016/02/19/joining-the-document-foundation-board" target="_blank" class="">http://webmink.com/2016/02/19/joining-the-document-foundation-board</a>/</b><br class=""><br class=""></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left: 8px; margin-left: 8px; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;" class="">Please don't call it a Foundation though - as Simon Phipps notes!!!<br class=""><br class=""></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left: 8px; margin-left: 8px; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;" class="">David<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></blockquote><br class=""><br class=""></div><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">CAVO mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:CAVO@opensource.org" target="_blank" class="">CAVO@opensource.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo</a><br class=""><br class=""></blockquote></div><br class=""></div><hr class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">CAVO mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:CAVO@opensource.org" class="">CAVO@opensource.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo" class="">https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">CAVO mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="mailto:CAVO@opensource.org" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">CAVO@opensource.org</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><span style="font-size: 12px;" class="">Thanks,</span></div><div style="font-size: 12px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-size: 12px;" class="">Brian</div><div style="font-size: 12px;" class="">--</div><div style="font-size: 12px;" class="">Brian J. Fox</div><div style="font-size: 12px;" class="">Founder/CEO</div><div style="font-size: 12px;" class="">Opus Logica, Inc.</div><div style="font-size: 12px;" class="">A: 901 Olive St., 93101</div><div style="font-size: 12px;" class="">O: 76-BAFFLE-76</div><div style="font-size: 12px;" class=""><span style="orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">C: 805.637.8642</span><br style="orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""></div></div></div>
</div>
<br class=""></div></body></html>