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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Brent Turner wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>By aggressive I mean those creating a board of Random Search Optimizers and purporting to be the pioneers without actually doing the heavy lifting... <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>[<LER>] For shame on them. So let's us do the heavy lifting instead and we'll get credit for it. Create software!<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>That in conjunction with fighting for disclosed code rather than open source.. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>[<LER>] They lost that battle. Their licensed software is completely convertible into GPLv3.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>then introducing un-necessary licenses into the space.. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>[<LER>] Yeah. They aren't the first to do that. You and I recently discussed that they were game-playing.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>something just doesn't pass the smell test-- <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>[<LER>] I didn't take that course in smell school.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>I think there is something rotten. as a matter of I'm sure of it. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>[<LER>] Okay. I won't let OSET perform heart surgery either.</span></i></b><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>I'm still waiting for the McCarthy-esque list of the government employees insisting on OPL over GPL-- <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>[<LER>] Me too. That was a bogus argument by the OSET folks and Heather Meeker. Almost everyone at OSI saw right through that ploy – and considered it as not relevant to FOSS license approval. GPL software is already all over the government! The OSI board knows that!</span></i></b><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>We shall see-- and thanks for your sympathy<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>[<LER>] My sympathy was only in a postscript; it was not part of my main response. :-) I am specifically NOT sympathetic to us talking any more about license irrelevancies instead of us helping to create and distribute actual GPLv3 FOSS elections software. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>/Larry<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Lawrence Rosen <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com" target="_blank">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Brent, I do not agree with you on that. What you describe as "aggressive business practices" doesn't apply yet – because there is no actual <u>open source</u> election software being marketed by aggressive businesses. Maybe someday, but not yet. Currently it is still largely a software fantasy.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>You describe "open washers" and "scheme" and "control points" and a "slippery slope." Please use facts and not buzz words to describe your concerns. If there are valid concerns for election security, I can assure you that many of us will stand up to fight.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>As for the "flag of OS" and its "core values," I encourage you to trust the OSI board members and many of its community activists to wave their brave pennant and to cherish their core values. Meanwhile, CAVO should focus on <u>open source software</u>. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>You appear to be disappointed in this relationship with OSI and what are the beginnings of an "open source community" here. I'm sorry if the OSI board isn't adopting the same politically active measures that you want to take, but they have never stopped you from mounting a platform. Just don't expect them to join you there.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>/Larry</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>P.S. I have mounted several platforms myself that the OSI board has refused to join. My sympathies to you, just as some have sympathized with me for my futile FOSS licensing battles here. Yet FOSS thrives....</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Brent Turner [mailto:<a href="mailto:turnerbrentm@gmail.com" target="_blank">turnerbrentm@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 4, 2016 12:55 PM<br><b>To:</b> Lawrence Rosen <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com" target="_blank">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>>; CAVO <<a href="mailto:cavo@opensource.org" target="_blank">cavo@opensource.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CAVO] FW: Note from OSI-</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>The general concern is that "open washers " ( i.e. those who have previously demonstrated aggressive business practices without regard for the OS community and fly the flag of OS without core values ) have entered the space of election reform without having the public googd as their paramount objective. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>In other words via licensing scheme they would retain control points which would allow a slippery slope toward counting manipulations. As the game is a big one.. the incentive for these types is obvious.. and now that we have opened the door for OS in elections it is our duty to inoculate against " kinda - sorta " open source business attempts- <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>Best- BT <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 12:27 PM, Lawrence Rosen <<a href="mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com" target="_blank">lrosen@rosenlaw.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Brent, what is the national security "fracas" that you are concerned about relating to open source or our licenses? /Larry</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Brent Turner [mailto:<a href="mailto:turnerbrentm@gmail.com" target="_blank">turnerbrentm@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 4, 2016 12:12 PM<br><b>To:</b> CAVO <<a href="mailto:CAVO@opensource.org" target="_blank">CAVO@opensource.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> [CAVO] Note from OSI-</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>Though OSI is doing good work-- they are a tad shy about entering this national security fracas surrounding election system software licenses-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>We did, however, receive this from them recently-- and wanted to share- <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>Thoughts ? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>BT <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'><b><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>Which Open Source license is best?</span></b><span style='font-size:9.5pt'><br><br>Unlike bilateral copyright licenses, which are negotiated between two parties and embody a truce between them for business purposes, multilateral copyright licenses — of which open source licenses are a kind — are “constitutions of communities”, as Eben Moglen and others have observed. They express the consensus of how a community chooses to collaborate. They also embody its ethical assumptions, even if they are not explicitly enumerated.<br><br>When that consensus includes giving permission to all to use, study improve and share the code without prejudice, the license is an open source license. The <a href="http://opensource.org/definition" target="_blank">Open Source Definition</a> provides an objective test of evaluating that such a license is indeed an open source license and delivers the software freedom we all expect.<br><br>Since licenses are the consensus of communities, it is natural that different communities will have different licenses, that communities with different norms will find fault with the licenses used by others, and that all will regard their way as optimum. The arguments over this will be as deep as the gulf between the philosophical positions of the communities involved.<br><br>Ultimately, there is no license that is right for every community. Use the one that best aligns with your community’s objectives and ethos.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:1.0in'><br>_______________________________________________<br>CAVO mailing list<br><a href="mailto:CAVO@opensource.org" target="_blank">CAVO@opensource.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo" target="_blank">https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><br>_______________________________________________<br>CAVO mailing list<br><a href="mailto:CAVO@opensource.org">CAVO@opensource.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo" target="_blank">https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cavo</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>